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Old 04-16-2007, 04:54 PM   #21
irishknight
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Default Re: Home Schooling

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Originally Posted by ellabella20 View Post
Also, when your home schooled, you don't get to see the world like it really is.
It's called the internet.
Oh, and of course they get to see the world.. (i.e. vacations, AFTER "school", and they probably have sports programs that they're in). Sports is another way to interact with other people; thus, new friends. :P
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:15 PM   #22
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Default Re: Home Schooling

My question to all the people who say that “homeschoolers lack in social skills” have you ever been home schooled?

I have been home schooled my whole life and I am the most social person you will meet. My mom has taught me up to grade 8, and then I in-a-way fired her and taught myself for the last 3 years. When my mom does not know something she would go to the teachers book teach herself, then explain it to me so that I could learn and understand it.

Home schooling in my eyes is the best way to go, my school district is nicknamed heroine high and if I had gone there, I could say with out a doubt in my mind, I would be one messed up kid right now. For some people I agree being in public school is great for them, but others is a whole different story, being with and around parents all day everyday would get on anyone nerves but that does in fact help, I now have the skills to adequately converse with people my own age and people that are older than me.

Even if I feel I could not home school my own kids properly, I’m not too sure I would enroll them in public or even private school, there is many other ways around me teaching my kids from schooling on the internet, to a program teaching them on Switched on Schoolhouse.

I can't really tell you the difference from home schooling to public schooling because I have never been even in a classroom atmosphere before. Really depending on the kid and what age you start them at home schooling would depend if they would take to it or not.

This is what I think...

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Old 04-16-2007, 05:41 PM   #23
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Default Re: Home Schooling

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Originally Posted by OmegaVanity View Post
there are thousands of ways to do so and all are the correct way.
Um, no.

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Originally Posted by OmegaVanity View Post
The kid that's being taught is the one that's making all the decisions
Probably not a good idea.

I, myself, believe that homeschooling can be done effectively, if the child is associated with sports, church, or another social activity. However, kids that are home schooled and are never exposed to people can grow up to be a problem.
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Old 04-16-2007, 06:13 PM   #24
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Default Re: Home Schooling

I did sports, and I did not like it, it was not the people, its was the win/loss ratio lol.

I was going to pitch in baseball (I can throw a ridiculous knuckleball, seriously, only I know where it is going) this year, but decided I hate baseball.
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Old 04-17-2007, 12:10 AM   #25
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Default Re: Home Schooling

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Originally Posted by theinsomniacnimrod View Post
The government keeps taking more and more money away from the public schools and as a result, the education and opportunities provided are greatly reduced.
I personally wouldn't class funding as the fundamental problem with our school system
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Old 04-17-2007, 12:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: Home Schooling

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Originally Posted by Kilroy_x View Post
Let me fix a couple things for you.





So what you're saying is you'd rather have everyone be wrong in exactly the same way than have difference in understanding at any point? As silly as that is, I sadly have to inform you that education is not anywhere near as standardized as you seem to think. Outside of standardized testing and a handful of other things, there are virtually no federal guidelines for curriculum. Sure, some states, districts, etc. impose their own standards, but this is rare and it's also hardly unifying.



I honestly don't think you could find any real difference.
I would be the first to agree that education is not standardized and very imbalanced. I also agree on many other levels. Really, the main thing I disagree with is:

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We already know public school teachers are incompetent, why not allow parents to screw their kids over themselves instead of having the government do it
I think, on average, the public school system is totally superior to the homeschooling experience. The overgeneralization of school teachers here is misleading at best, and really not true in most cases (again, highly depends on the school). I think the public education system can do far more, on average, than what can be done through homeschooling.

I have seen the 20/20 video before. I am not an american, if this means anything, so I cannot speak for the american school system. I speak for the system here in Canada, which to me is doing a good job. Can improve dramatically for sure, but I would much rather leave the population in the hands of it than in the hands of all the parents.

This has nothing to do with individual experience. For certain people it is inevitable that the right choice is homeschooling, and there is nothing inherently wrong or inferior about homeschooling. It's just, the way you come across is that public education is quite useless, when I disagree completely.
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Old 04-17-2007, 01:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Home Schooling

I actually don't know anything about the Canadian school system.

Anyways, I wouldn't say public education is useless. More like, any benefits of public education are somewhat accidental and certainly not direct results of good policy.
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Old 04-17-2007, 02:02 PM   #28
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Default Re: Home Schooling

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I actually don't know anything about the Canadian school system.
It is in many ways very similar to the American school system, we just tend to split up elementary school not at all, and it's just K-8, 9-12 without a "middle school" And with regards to my previous comment about the qualification of teachers, my point about how "yes from K-6 you can argue that the teacher is teaching outside their specialty but not after" was referring to the fact that at least in my school, for 7-8 to "help prepare us for highschool" we had a very high-school like rotary system, when we'd have one teacher for history, another for geography, another for math etc. so as in highschool, we were being taught by teachers who had actually gotten their undergrad in the subject they were teaching.

And insofar as the argument that you can teach with nothing but a BA and a Teaching certificate and this doesn't mean you know the subjects you're teaching: At least in canada, you get a BA and a B.Ed which is a seperate degree entirely. You can do concurrent education and get both in 5 years, or you generally go 4 for an undergrad and 2 for the B.Ed, but I would argue that this -still- puts you ahead of the average parent, because the B.Ed doesn't necessarily teach you your subject, it teaches you to teach, which is at least if not more valuable.
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Old 04-17-2007, 02:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: Home Schooling

Well, it seems we're largely discussing two different systems, so I'm not sure how well my observations compare to the realities of the Canadian education system. Still:

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Originally Posted by devonin View Post
but I would argue that this -still- puts you ahead of the average parent, because the B.Ed doesn't necessarily teach you your subject, it teaches you to teach, which is at least if not more valuable.
Actually, at least from my experience with the curriculum a course in education doesn't particularly teach you how to teach; It teaches education theory, which is an extremely broad subject with many opposing perspectives within it. Admittedly, part of the curriculum also requires a certain number of hours of volunteer teaching, but I'm not actually sure how well this helps potential teachers learn how to apply whatever aspects of theory they've choosen to embrace, partly because sometimes the theory is off, and partly because sometimes the theory is just too abstact and vague to actually have direct applications. Requiring experience is certainly better than nothing though, although with a parent the experience with dealing with your kid is already there.

From my experience I would seriously consider labeling an education in teaching as an education in only the most broad and general bits of philosophy of epistemology.

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Old 04-17-2007, 03:12 PM   #30
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Default Re: Home Schooling

Even the most broad and shallow education in philosophy is better than no education in philosophy at all. If you lined up parents and teachers in order of competence to teach, I imagine that the large portion of overlap would probably start to happen around the bottom 40% of teachers and the top 25% of parents, give or take. (Note: I did in fact pull these numbers entirely out of personal observation of parents and teachers, and they have no statistical merit whatsoever)

A well-educated parent who knows the subject would, in my mind, be better than a good half of teachers, if simply on the grounds that they know their children and how their children learn -much- better than a teacher would.

The reports of a great many home-schooled children on this forum lends credence to the fact. But along the same vein as the issues presented in that 20/20 special linked to earlier in the thread, about how teachers have such a locked-down union monopoly that even gross incompetence can take -years- to result in a teacher being fired, the biggest pitfall to homeschooling is that there is -absolutely- no oversight on parents to ensure they are doing a good job.

You won't necessarily know the parent screwed up until the kid wants to go to college and completely bombs the SATs. At least in schools you theoretically have the benefit of testing throughout, though the efficacy of most school testing in north america is pretty dubious as well.
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Old 04-17-2007, 05:59 PM   #31
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Default Re: Home Schooling

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Originally Posted by devonin View Post
Even the most broad and shallow education in philosophy is better than no education in philosophy at all.
I'm not sure about that. Would you say the philosophy of Marx holds the same level of truth as the philosophy of Kant? This is the type of question Philosophers themselves bicker over. Past that, there are plenty of instances when societies educated in Philosophy have created more problems than they've solved. Thiestic philosophy held back society for countless centuries. More recently, Physicists had to deal with criticism from Philosophers who believed a vacuum was a philosophical impossibility, and that only the existence of the hypothetical element ether could explain various things. I believe we have our own Rene Descartes to blame for that collossal screw-up.

Your imagination, as you've already admitted, is not a sound basis for argument.

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the biggest pitfall to homeschooling is that there is -absolutely- no oversight on parents to ensure they are doing a good job.
Right. It's pretty much identical to public school in this regard. We would hope that parents would have the best interest of their children in mind, although this is no guarentee, nor would it guarentee a decent education. We might also hope that children's natural curiosity would compensate for any lack of energy on the part of the parent.

The point is though, outside of all this imaginative speculation of ours, that no one really knows what they're doing in terms of teaching, so there's really no incentive to dissallow home schooling. There is the slightest bit of incentive to dissallow public schooling, simply because it costs money, but it also has measurable, although likely somewhat randomly generated benefits, so the money is probably worth it. That doesn't mean there aren't ways to improve on the system, however.

Quote:
You won't necessarily know the parent screwed up until the kid wants to go to college and completely bombs the SATs. At least in schools you theoretically have the benefit of testing throughout, though the efficacy of most school testing in north america is pretty dubious as well.
Tests generally teach how to test. A proper education teaches how to think. While in the later case the one might include the other, learning how to test generally doesn't include learning how to think.

Incidentally, some of the thickest people I've met have been Ivy-Leagers (not to say that most ivy-leagers that I've met have seemed unintelligent.)

There a plenty of low-standard or open-admission colleges, they probably educate just as well even if they do have a lower population of people with an arbitrary number attached to their name, and studies have shown that, at least for undergraduate degrees, there is no real difference in income earned over a lifetime between someone with an undergraduate degree from a state college and someone with an undergrad degree from a private college.

Basically, I don't understand what possible standing objection there could be against any form of diversity in education.
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Old 04-18-2007, 03:27 PM   #32
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Default Re: Home Schooling

might be nyce
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Old 04-18-2007, 03:53 PM   #33
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Default Re: Home Schooling

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Basically, I don't understand what possible standing objection there could be against any form of diversity in education.
On that we agree completely. I was just trying to forward the point that if nothing else, teachers are presumed to have undergone appropriate education and training to be competent to teach, whereas most parents have not.

I'm not saying all parents would be worse educators than all teachers, that's nonsense, just that I'm leery in general of home-schooling because of the lack of needed qualifications, and the lack of any kind of testing system.
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Old 04-18-2007, 06:33 PM   #34
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Default Re: Home Schooling

Conversely, I'm arguing that the "needed qualifications" of which you speak have as little guarentee of promoting sound education as untrained parents, that they mostly just add another level of complexity and that they do so without uniformity or clear purpose, and that the testing system is ultimately a hollow construction which guarentees in no way the quality of education.

If we look at it a different way, imposing tests is a form of imposing costs. Sometimes these costs subtract from the quality of education by making it neccessary to teach to the test rather than to the individual. On top of that, the tests often have very little to do with the ideal education a person would in theory receive from an education system. Beyond even that, however, funding is often based on test performance, which makes in some ways "teaching to the test" the primary goal of institutional education, and any actual education secondary and peripheral.

The best test for the quality of an education is not an actual test, but what type of person the education produces. If a person is capable of being social, of having a conversation, of surviving in the world through the use of the skills and knowledge they have gained, of employing their own personal resources for any gain in a way they themselves judge to be beneficial to them, then their education, no matter what form, has served them splendidly. I don't think public education and I doubt whether institutional education does or even can provide this outcome for anywhere near enough people to justify branding it as a system which serves the public good in any supervalued or "official" sense.

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Old 07-18-2007, 07:08 PM   #35
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Default Re: Home Schooling

i was homeschooled for two years - 6th and 7th grade, only because i was totally messed up with depression and anxiety and not sleeping at all in a night. not to mention i had no friends. life sucked to put it mildly, so my parents pulled me out. maybe some people think that was a wimpy thing to do that i couldnt pull myself together, but now thinking on it i thank my parents for it. i could have totally had a major breakdown, pushed everything away and fallen out of everything, and my stupid issues could have worsened by much.

it all depends on what you think. im really okay with homeschooling, and not just because i was. sure kids may not get to see the world as it is, but if they are homeschooled, parents should try to get them into other social things like clubs an; blah blah, etc...

point is, in mai opinion, its fine
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:44 PM   #36
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Default Re: Home Schooling

I used to be homeschooled. I wasn't motivated enough though. So i had to go back to public.

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