Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums > General Discussion > Critical Thinking
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2007, 11:03 PM   #41
Izzi
FFR Player
 
Izzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 30
Posts: 2,142
Send a message via AIM to Izzi
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

I dont understand your point. Are you trying to argue that you shouldnt save the larger number of people? Honestly even the single person would agree to be killed if it saved more.
Izzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 11:03 PM   #42
Chrissi
FFR Player
 
Chrissi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: The Game
Age: 34
Posts: 3,019
Send a message via MSN to Chrissi
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

I don't know whether I'd agree to die to save more.

It would depend how I felt at the time. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
__________________
C is for Charisma, it's why people think I'm great! I make my friends all laugh and smile and never want to hate!
Chrissi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 11:35 PM   #43
Kilroy_x
Little Chief Hare
FFR Veteran
 
Kilroy_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Age: 32
Posts: 783
Send a message via AIM to Kilroy_x
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzi View Post
I dont understand your point. Are you trying to argue that you shouldnt save the larger number of people? Honestly even the single person would agree to be killed if it saved more.
If I was capable of getting permission before taking the action then I guess that would be fine, but under this scenario I am not. I can't reasonably be expected to make a decision that actively leads to a persons unwilling death, even when it prevents the death of others.
Kilroy_x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 12:10 AM   #44
Izzi
FFR Player
 
Izzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 30
Posts: 2,142
Send a message via AIM to Izzi
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

But the point of the question is to choose either one. You dont have the decision not to do either. Your point is completley pointless. Even if you could decide to let the 5 people die. Why would you. When you can save more. This really isnt even something to question when the answer is so blatantly obvious.

Last edited by Izzi; 03-28-2007 at 12:12 AM..
Izzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 12:24 AM   #45
ledwix
Giant Pi Operator
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: California
Age: 30
Posts: 2,878
Send a message via AIM to ledwix Send a message via Yahoo to ledwix
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzi View Post
Honestly even the single person would agree to be killed if it saved more.
Although that may sound true logically, not many would actually die to save a few random strangers. Obviously, with an absence of emotion and bias, the person would agree to die. However, we are extremely biased when it comes to taking care of ourselves before even thinking about others, as you know. That is natural.

For example: There are two teams, A and B, coexisting in peace.
-Team A kills 2 people from Team B. Out of those 2 people, both of them hated Team A and would willingly kill every member of Team A under all circumstances.
-Team B then takes the offensive and kills 150 people from Team A. Out of those 150 people, only a handful would even consider cruelly murdering anyone from Team A. Most were peaceful.

Which team is the most justified?

For a person thinking logically, they might choose Team A. However, multiply all the numbers by 1,000, label Team A as Japan, and label Team B as the United States, set the time period and situation as World War II, and you might get all the bias of American pride in this country. The bias is to take care of ourselves first even if it means horrible treatment of others. We seem to dismiss this as meaningless and insignificant, which is really ignorant. I hate how many idiots think this way in my classes and such.
ledwix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 12:26 AM   #46
Kilroy_x
Little Chief Hare
FFR Veteran
 
Kilroy_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Age: 32
Posts: 783
Send a message via AIM to Kilroy_x
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzi View Post
But the point of the question is to choose either one. You dont have the decision not to do either. Your point is completley pointless. Even if you could decide to let the 5 people die. Why would you. When you can save more. This really isnt even something to question when the answer is so blatantly obvious.
I think you're just too biased to examine the issue from a nuetral perspective and understand my points. As I said before of the 2 my choice would be to let the 5 people die rather than to make the 1 person die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledwix View Post
Which team is the most justified?

For a person thinking logically, they might choose Team A. However, multiply all the numbers by 1,000, label Team A as Japan, and label Team B as the United States, set the time period and situation as World War II, and you might get all the bias of American pride in this country. The bias is to take care of ourselves first even if it means horrible treatment of others. We seem to dismiss this as meaningless and insignificant, which is really ignorant. I hate how many idiots think this way in my classes and such.
I love you.

Although the Japanese were certainly not faultless when it comes to the type of violence you're describing, they killed countless chinese civilians, as well as civilians in as far as I can tell every pacific island where they occupied. They also killed prisoners of war which was very much unneccesary.

Last edited by Kilroy_x; 03-28-2007 at 12:32 AM.. Reason: Just noticed something awesome
Kilroy_x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 01:08 AM   #47
Chrissi
FFR Player
 
Chrissi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: The Game
Age: 34
Posts: 3,019
Send a message via MSN to Chrissi
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

I don't know how relevant others might perceive this as, but I think it was interesting.

I once had a dream where a little girl was about to get shot, but I jumped in front of her and took the bullet to save her. I didn't know this little girl at all but I saved her. I knew I was dying, and they were sending the paramedics to me, and the girl's mother was thanking me, but I was just laying there happy, in a daze, so content that I had done something good with my life. I hoped that the girl would realize that I sacrificed myself for her, and hoped she would move on to do big and amazing things.

I woke up before I died. I think I was in the ambulance.
__________________
C is for Charisma, it's why people think I'm great! I make my friends all laugh and smile and never want to hate!
Chrissi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 08:36 AM   #48
Izzi
FFR Player
 
Izzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 30
Posts: 2,142
Send a message via AIM to Izzi
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

I think saving the 5 people is more of an unbiased thing to do. If you dont know anything about these people then it would still make more sense to save the larger group. But what your saying is your to lazy to save them so you are just going to let them die out of your own personal beleifs.
Izzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 10:37 AM   #49
Hepcat06
FFR Player
 
Hepcat06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Abbotsford, B.C.
Age: 28
Posts: 26
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilroy_x View Post
I'm not sure I would do anything in any of those scenarios. In all of them, before I take the action events are unfolding as they would, and the people that will die will die as a result of already determined conditions, but as soon as I react even though I'm saving 5 people or what have you I'm also killing one. I'm not sure linear arithmatic should be trusted to show that the good I've done to outweigh the bad.

Am I duty bound to try and save these people? I don't see why. I don't even know what the circumstances are for why they're there. Maybe the five people tied to the railroad tracks are criminals facing vigilante justice and the one person was just a random guy who tried to stop the vigilante and was restrained.

If I did pull the lever I would also feel obligated to make some sort of attempt to save the individual guy in each circumstance, even at the cost of my own life.
Couldn't have said it any better myself.

The five people already there weren't put there because of me, but if i pull the lever, I myself am putting that one guy into that situation, therefore being the casue of his death. With the five people I am not the cause. I would have guilt hanging over me for a long time. Guilt more powerful than the thanks I get from those five people.
__________________
HOW'S IT HANGING HONKY?

Last edited by Hepcat06; 03-28-2007 at 10:40 AM..
Hepcat06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 11:15 AM   #50
claytonffrking
FFR Player
 
claytonffrking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: some were between here and there
Posts: 70
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

i'd tell the single guy to go to hell and pull the lever
__________________
_____________________________________________


I'm confused
Was it the chicken then the egg
Or the egg then the chicken.
claytonffrking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 12:30 PM   #51
Kilroy_x
Little Chief Hare
FFR Veteran
 
Kilroy_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Age: 32
Posts: 783
Send a message via AIM to Kilroy_x
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzi View Post
I think saving the 5 people is more of an unbiased thing to do. If you dont know anything about these people then it would still make more sense to save the larger group.
Well, let's assume in a modified scenario there are two completely different trains and train tracks, and I only have enough time to save 1 group. Then this makes sense. However, in the current scenario by "saving the larger group" I'm MURDERING A MAN.

Quote:
But what your saying is your to lazy to save them so you are just going to let them die out of your own personal beleifs.
Laziness has absolutely nothing to do with it, it doesn't take any meaningful investment of energy to flip a switch, and yes I am letting them die out of my own personal beliefs, because after thinking through my beliefs I believe that is appropriate to do. Just as you would murder a man to save the five people out of your personal beliefs.

I find your personal beliefs both less thought out and much more reprehensible.
Kilroy_x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 12:37 PM   #52
FRANKKK
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
FRANKKK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,802
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

This is a really good question. I would have to say that I would pull the lever, just because i would want to save more people.
__________________



Full combo's: 230
AAA's: 75
Latest AAA: Lesson.
Best AAA: Firestorm.
GameWhore Clan
"Team Mom's Been Whoring" hahaha.
FRANKKK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 01:40 PM   #53
skyrunner06
FFR Player
 
skyrunner06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: his name is millhouse
Age: 33
Posts: 154
Send a message via AIM to skyrunner06
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

duh tell the people to move all lives saved
__________________
skyrunner06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 02:23 PM   #54
GuidoHunter
is against custom titles
FFR Veteran
 
GuidoHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas
Age: 36
Posts: 7,379
Send a message via AIM to GuidoHunter Send a message via Skype™ to GuidoHunter
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyrunner06 View Post
duh tell the people to move all lives saved
Keep that crap out of CT.

Same goes for clayton and monkeybomb.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
She has an asshole, in other pics you can see a diaper taped to her dead twin's back.
Sentences I thought I never would have to type.
GuidoHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 03:46 PM   #55
Izzi
FFR Player
 
Izzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 30
Posts: 2,142
Send a message via AIM to Izzi
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

I think not pressing the switch makes you personally responsible for murdering 5 people as well. So the real question is. Would you rather murder 1 person or murder 5 people. There is no way to argue over this so dont even try.
Izzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 04:30 PM   #56
Kilroy_x
Little Chief Hare
FFR Veteran
 
Kilroy_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Age: 32
Posts: 783
Send a message via AIM to Kilroy_x
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

I agree, there's no arguing with you at all. No reasoning either. I'm glad you took the time to phrase the question in exactly the way I already showed as senseless and then yelling that phrasing as loudly as possible.
Kilroy_x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 05:18 PM   #57
Izzi
FFR Player
 
Izzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 30
Posts: 2,142
Send a message via AIM to Izzi
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Its not a senseless way to look at it. I think you are confused on how logic works.
Izzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 05:31 PM   #58
Kilroy_x
Little Chief Hare
FFR Veteran
 
Kilroy_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Age: 32
Posts: 783
Send a message via AIM to Kilroy_x
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Logic? As in A implies B iff C, ~C therefore ~B by negation and modus tollens? Seriously, waste someone elses time.
Kilroy_x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 05:32 PM   #59
Engler
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
Engler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CNY
Age: 28
Posts: 2,339
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Actually, I think it is good for one to care about his neighbor's safety above his own. Not to the extent where it would be easy to save yourself and then help, though.
__________________
Engler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 07:10 PM   #60
Hepcat06
FFR Player
 
Hepcat06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Abbotsford, B.C.
Age: 28
Posts: 26
Default Re: Immiment Death Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzi View Post
I think not pressing the switch makes you personally responsible for murdering 5 people as well.
I really don't believe your murdering 5 people. You're just choosing not to save them. If Superman knew someone was in trouble and decided not to save them, even though he could, he wouldn't be the murderer. Same with the trains. I wasn't the one who put those people on the tracks. But if i chose to save them, then I'm the one who puts that one person on the tracks. There for I am the muderer!
__________________
HOW'S IT HANGING HONKY?
Hepcat06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution