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Old 03-15-2007, 12:54 AM   #21
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

Advanced electronic systems and networks are a joke compared to modifying the structure of space time to allow for instantaneous travel or theoretical time travel.
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

I read a theory once that every moment is a new dimension, so theoretically if you had a wormhole you could return to any moment that has ever existed before the present. I don't think, however, that you could go into the future unless we're actually in that past and the future has already happened. How could you travel somewhere that doesn't exist yet? Wouldn't you cease to exist by going there?
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

You have a good point, darkdragoness. That is very curious... Hmmm...

However, I think that time is, indeed, a human form to keep track of things. There is a past. If we could go into the past, there would probably be some sort of space-time paradox... Ah... yeah, it's already starting to confuse me... But I have logic in my mind somewhere... I'm just a little too tired to access it yet...

I think that if any attempt to enter the past would be prevented by the people in the future so then the past doesn't change and the future will remain the same. Entering the past is pointless. What happens if your meddling kills someone that could have influenced... etc. etc. etc.? Therefore, we have the butterfly effect...

I'm off subject... I don't really think that time travel is possible and if it is, there are some regulations, I'm sure. What would happen if you or I went into the past and changed things? Our lives, even our world, may be different.

Not to mention, what happens after we alter what's in our past? Do we forget what was in the future, or do we remember it all? What about other people? Hmmmm... I just don't know... and I'm just rambling so ignore me... ^o^;
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Old 03-15-2007, 07:31 PM   #24
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

BTW, wormholes are different from black holes. Black holes are supposed to absorb energy/mass through their massive gravity and obliterate it. A worm hole is a hole that would accelerate you to the other end of the hole thus allowing almost instantinous travel...

But I think that time travel, with the proper specs and technology is possible either forward or backward, we just do not percieve the change due to alternate diminisions...since after all, we are in our own small bubble universe. What if the time travel causes us to jump bubble universes in proportion to time? Why would time be the only thing affected? Why not the 3 diminsions of space (as well as the many we don't percieve).

We shift between universes millions of times per second...(study your electrons...they just "phase out" and disappear.) so if they our jumping back and forth between bubble universes then if time is the only factor, which bubble universe would the time machine be landing in?

The depth of this question is almost unbearable at this time.
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

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Originally Posted by Izzy-chandess View Post
Not to mention, what happens after we alter what's in our past? Do we forget what was in the future, or do we remember it all? What about other people? Hmmmm... I just don't know... and I'm just rambling so ignore me... ^o^;
This is an extension of the premise of "would the future 'reboot' or not?"

You can go two ways with backwards time travel. One way leads to time paradoxes and the possible destruction of the very space time continuum. The other gives you awesome adventures and a skewed time line that doesn't affect your own time line.
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Black holes are supposed to absorb energy/mass through their massive gravity and obliterate it.
Oh so black holes are made of antimatter now? Quick guys. Tell those scientists doing experiments and creating very very small amounts of antimatter that they needn't bother! Immense mass and made of antimatter... well ****.

Too bad it's not truly possible to destroy energy or matter. You can "neutralize" matter with antimatter, but it cannot be truly destroyed.

Quote:
A worm hole is a hole that would accelerate you to the other end of the hole thus allowing almost instantinous travel...
Actually, I would say the concept is best described as it is in the movie Event Horizon. "The shortest distance between two points is nothing". This is all assuming that we could bend space time sufficiently and punch a proper hole in it, and this is also assuming that the energy exuded by such a punching of hole would be not only possible to be performed by man in this 3rd dimension, but that it would also not kill them much the same way a black hole would kill them. There's no way of knowing for sure, and as far as I'm concerned something like this is all theoretical: that is to say, I believe it's not even possible to be performed. As for "almost instantaneous travel": It'd have to be instantaneous. If it wasn't, where you would be during the time of your trip? Your matter would have to exist in the third dimension at all times during this trip through the 4th dimension, even if your body's matter is being "bent" across the universe.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:38 PM   #26
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

Unless i overlooked it, i didnt see anything about high quantities of mass distorting space-time. taking that into consideration, there is such thing as time acceleration, which is essentially the same as traveling forward in time. Personally, i dont beleive that the past is an existance anymore, and that it only exists as what we call the past. So with that theory, it would be impossible to travel backwards in time. Also seeing as the future doesnt exist at the same time as the present, then direct transportation from present to future is impossible as well. But then that leads to the question that if one person take a route to a destination via the high-mass route (with accelerated space-time/distance) and another person were to take a route avoiding such large masses, but covered the same area on a 2d plane, would they arrive at the same time? On a different note, as stated before, woemholes and black holes are completely different entitys, which can, coincidentally, accomplish the same task. That task being getting from one place to another faster than any other means of travel. Sadly, the amount of mass held by a black hole would, as we all know, tear apart every form or matter we can comprehend, and a wormholes acceleration would leave any being in a quite a mess... But one concept of the universe it that all edges of it are actually wormholes, such as an invisible pipe system throughout the edge of a likely spherical universe, each wormhole leading to a corresponding wormhole somewhere else in the universe. That being a simple way to immagine it, but in reality (or so we think) wormholes are direct transportation to another place, so the invisible pipes are more of invisible teleportation devices, if you will. Now, on the other hand, if the universe is a continuous body that exists infinitely in every direction, then the acclaimed wormholes would likely be in supposedly random areas throughout the universe leading to anotehr random area. Neither theory has been tested nor proven, as we can clearly tell, that would be slightly difficult to accomplish. Anyways thats all i have to say on the topic.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:28 PM   #27
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

Afrobean....it OBLITERATES mass...converting it to energy...I am well aware of E=mc^2.

But I do like your definition of a worm hole better, i understand the concept but my explanation was skewed.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:54 PM   #28
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

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Afrobean....it OBLITERATES mass...converting it to energy...I am well aware of E=mc^2.

But I do like your definition of a worm hole better, i understand the concept but my explanation was skewed.
You are aware of E = mc^2, yet you're talking about converting matter into energy? Regardless, I have yet to hear of anything which seriously discusses converting matter into energy, and unless I'm mistaken, such a change would violate both laws of conservation.

As for immense mass bending the fabric of space time: You really think we could punch a hole and control where the hole comes out on the other end? You think the immense mass needed to punch this hole would even be possible to travel through without the body of any human passenger of a vehicle simply being crushed into a singularity.
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Old 03-16-2007, 08:09 PM   #29
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

Am I missing something, or doesn't matter get converted to energy every day all around us? Take cars for example?
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Old 03-16-2007, 09:52 PM   #30
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

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Am I missing something, or doesn't matter get converted to energy every day all around us? Take cars for example?
Not the same. It takes potential energy in the fuel and turns it into kinetic energy. The energy changes forms, but doesn't get created or destroyed.

As for the fuel: it also changes forms. Cars might not have been the best example. Let's look at humans and eating. We eat food and digest it to take it's potential energy and turn it into energy we use to live. The food doesn't cease to exist however, it just changes forms. It goes from nice delicious food with potential energy to feces.
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:07 PM   #31
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

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Not the same. It takes potential energy in the fuel and turns it into kinetic energy. The energy changes forms, but doesn't get created or destroyed.

As for the fuel: it also changes forms. Cars might not have been the best example. Let's look at humans and eating. We eat food and digest it to take it's potential energy and turn it into energy we use to live. The food doesn't cease to exist however, it just changes forms. It goes from nice delicious food with potential energy to feces.
I'm still missing something here.

We all know that matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but I was under the impression that matter can be converted to energy and vice versa.

I don't know if this is just me, but I don't feel like I excrete quite as much food as I take in..... is this an illusion? I would assume that some of it is being converted to energy, isn't it?
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:21 PM   #32
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

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We all know that matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but I was under the impression that matter can be converted to energy and vice versa.
In very very small quantities.
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Originally Posted by http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970724a.html
Particle accelerators convert energy into subatomic particles, for example by colliding electrons and positrons. Some of the kinetic energy in the collision goes into creating new particles.
and...
Quote:
I don't know if this is just me, but I don't feel like I excrete quite as much food as I take in..... is this an illusion? I would assume that some of it is being converted to energy, isn't it?
It has been a while since I last took biology, but I believe the energy is created by the breaking of the glucose through hydrolysis. I think it is just giving off its kinetic energy, though I'm not quite sure.
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:42 PM   #33
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

So wait.

They can create matter by colliding matter with antimatter?

How?
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:48 PM   #34
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

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Originally Posted by http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970724a.html
It's not possible, however, to collect these newly created particles and assemble them into atoms, molecules and bigger (less microscopic) structures that we associate with 'matter' in our daily life. This is partly because in a technical sense, you cannot just create matter out of energy: there are various 'conservation laws' of electric charges, the number of leptons (electron-like particles) etc., which means that you can only create matter / anti-matter pairs out of energy. Anti-matter, however, has the unfortunate tendency to combine with matter and turn itself back into energy. Even though physicists have managed to safely trap a small amount of anti-matter using magnetic fields, this is not easy to do.

Also, Einstein's equation, Energy = Mass x the square of the velocity of light, tells you that it takes a huge amount of energy to create matter in this way. The big accelerator at Fermilab can be a significant drain on the electricity grid in and around the city of Chicago, and it has produced very little matter.
How? -- through a particle accelerator, when the particles collide.
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:58 PM   #35
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

I saw a special on Discovery or History channel or something like that, and unless I'm mistaken, they never mentioned CREATING matter OR energy.

Doesn't matter either way. Possible creation of matter through this means is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It was only even brought up as an aside because someone erroniously said that black holes convert matter into energy. Black holes simply take in matter and combine it into it's singularity. If they converted matter to energy, they wouldn't have any mass... they'd be masses of energy. Also, I'm not COMPLETELY familiar with black holes, but I am quite sure that they DO have mass, as without it, they'd have no gravity.
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:02 PM   #36
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

They are not creating matter and energy, they are changing forms of what is already existing. Is it better if I say that matter is the product of the collision?
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:19 AM   #37
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

black holes are like garbage disposals they all lead somewhere but i cant find where it goes
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:04 PM   #38
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

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black holes are like garbage disposals they all lead somewhere but i cant find where it goes

Black holes are areas in space with MASSIVE gravitational force, whatever, I don't know how to phrase things right now its like 11:16 in the morning and I just woke up. They are not like garbage disposals, more like landfills, you're dropped there and NEVER expected to be found again. Ight?
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:11 PM   #39
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

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I saw a special on Discovery or History channel or something like that, and unless I'm mistaken, they never mentioned CREATING matter OR energy.

Doesn't matter either way. Possible creation of matter through this means is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It was only even brought up as an aside because someone erroniously said that black holes convert matter into energy. Black holes simply take in matter and combine it into it's singularity. If they converted matter to energy, they wouldn't have any mass... they'd be masses of energy. Also, I'm not COMPLETELY familiar with black holes, but I am quite sure that they DO have mass, as without it, they'd have no gravity.
Black holes tend to take in matter and convert it to radiation, which is certainly energy, either in wave form or particle form.

Also, Black holes don't eat all of the matter to increase its size. As I said above, black holes give off a lot of radiation (about 50% is converted to radiation?).

Lastly, of course black holes have mass. The idea is that a singularity, given the solutions to GR, has an infinite density (but in reality, we arn't sure and it is probably just very large). Given D=m/v, where you have a lot of mass concentrated into an abnormally small volume.
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:19 PM   #40
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Default Re: Time Travel Makes for Good Fiction, But is it Real?

first, watch this, a clip from the discovery channel.
Pretty much I understand it, it's about the light!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oRWwI61so5Q
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