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Old 12-4-2006, 04:00 PM   #21
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Wait, yeah, you're right. I wasn't thinking in terms of one.

I've been frying my brain with Calc, Chem, and Physics lately.
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Sorry didn't have time to proofread that last post. Also, isn't infinite - infinite = - infinite?
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:14 PM   #23
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinit...tical_infinity

wiki says one to the infinity is undef.
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

If you argue that infinity is multipliable and divisible, then you also profess to say that 0.999... repeating infinitely is not equal to one mathematically.

We've had two threads on infinity in math and they're contradicting each other unless you say it's undefined.

Infinity is not a number. Multiplication is defined as "The product of two numbers". Division is defined as "The quotient of two numbers."

I don't see how you can put infinity into these statements and expect a result other than "undefined".
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:18 PM   #25
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

well apparantly wiki's retarded

I don't see a reason listed anywhere.
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

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Originally Posted by Tokzic View Post
well apparantly wiki's retarded

I don't see a reason listed anywhere.
Oh, the weirdness of infinity. So many people don't understand it properly at all, because they try to think of it intuitively--and nothing about mathematical infinity is intuitive.

See, the reason 1^inf is undefined is beacause of these rules:

1^anything = 1
Anything^inf = inf

When those rules are put together in 1^inf, there is no proper answer (besides 'undefined") because you cannot follow both rules in that case, even though both must be followed whenever they can be.

Just because it makes no intuitive sense doesn't mean it's not true. Trying to think of it as multiplying a lot of 1's together won't get you the right answer, because you can never physically multiply an infinity of 1's together.

Also, itmorr: inf - inf is definitely undefined.
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:30 PM   #27
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

well, squeek, you can multiply and add with infinity, only certain times. I remember vaguely doing all this with limits and **** at the beginning of calculus, but that was three years ago.
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:34 PM   #28
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

You can approach infinity and your limit can equal infinity, but you can't really use it for arithmetic.
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:35 PM   #29
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

yes, you can. e.g. x + infinity = infinity
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

You can use infinity for arithmetic, but any operation do involving it will either be infinity, zero, or undefined.
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:42 PM   #31
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

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Originally Posted by Shashakiro View Post
Anything^inf = inf
Who invents these rules. What a load of crap.

If I made you immortal and told you to take an undecayable calculator and hit 1 then *1 for all eternity, you would never see another number besides one.

Of course... there's probably some algebraeic way of proving me wrong. Someone find it or I'll continue to be convinced I'm right.
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:55 PM   #32
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

I have learned things from this thread.
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Old 12-4-2006, 04:59 PM   #33
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokzic View Post
Who invents these rules. What a load of crap.
Mathematicians.

Quote:
If I made you immortal and told you to take an undecayable calculator and hit 1 then *1 for all eternity, you would never see another number besides one.
You would never reach an infinite number of presses that way.

Quote:
Of course... there's probably some algebraeic way of proving me wrong. Someone find it or I'll continue to be convinced I'm right.
Would you settle for calculus?

No matter how convinced you are that you're right here, you aren't. All of higher math disagrees with you.
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Old 12-4-2006, 05:03 PM   #34
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Infinity cannot be defined, which is why the invalid proof inf = ((inf)-(-inf))^2 is false.

But it can be used in arithemetic.
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Old 12-4-2006, 05:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Quote:
If I made you immortal and told you to take an undecayable calculator and hit 1 then *1 for all eternity, you would never see another number besides one.
True. Hitting 1 forever doesn't equate to infinity though.

The reason why it's undefined in simple terms is because you don't know what infinity is. You're making a fallacious assumption when thinking 1^infinity means 1 times itself infinite times.

Infinity doesn't imply a number, what if infinity is a function? That's where the problem arises. Remember, infinity has no value, it just means to exist without bounds (existing everywhere at any given point in time). You can represent this unboundedness by any number of functions.


I suppose if you let x go to zero, lim hx^kx = (1+x)^(1/x) , then is that one?

No, no it's not. It's 1^infinity, but the answer is e. lny=(1/x)ln(1+x) , lny=ln(1+x)/x , dy/dx (H) = 1/1+x , let x go to 0, ln y= 1, y = e^1 = e

Contradiction! 1^infinity therefore does not have to equal 1...it can have any number of answers actually.

Hence the answer is undefined.
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Old 12-4-2006, 05:16 PM   #36
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

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Originally Posted by Reach View Post
I suppose if you let x go to zero, lim hx^kx = 1+x^(1/x) , then is that one? It's 1^infinity, but the answer is e.

Contradiction! 1^infinity, therefore does not have to equal 1...it can have any number of answers actually.

Hence the answer is undefined.
Ah thanks, I knew there was a simple way to show it but I forgot what it was ><
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Old 12-4-2006, 05:49 PM   #37
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

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Originally Posted by Tokzic View Post
Who invents these rules.
The mathematicians in charge of math, of course!

Man, now I'm pissed that I changed that sig.

EDIT: Also I'm highly disappointed that a Control-F for "indeterminacy" in this topic yielded no results.
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Old 12-4-2006, 05:58 PM   #38
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

what have i started
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Old 12-4-2006, 06:31 PM   #39
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

You're started a journey down the road of knowledge. Embrace it.

EMBRACE IT, DAMN YOU.
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Old 12-4-2006, 06:57 PM   #40
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Default Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

o = o thats it infinety is an undetermined number it is larger than any other number its infinety
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