Old 11-15-2006, 08:38 PM   #21
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Default Re: Origin of religion

Laharl, don't be so uptight.

Even if you have absolute faith in your religion, then you must be in the same boat as atheists when it comes to unrelated belief systems. You believe in the God who created Adam and Eve, who is the father of Jesus, etc. right? You don't believe in things such as Zeus, Hades, and Poseidon, right?

Basically, even if your belief system is correct, the origin of religion (ie the initial idea of gods) comes from trying to answer questions which would be difficult to answer. A simple minded individual in ancient times with no concept of science would look at the sun and think "wow look at that fiery chariot driving across the heavens. It moves almost as though there is thought behind it's movements... there must be a sentient being behind this." And after all, there are many independently structured god based belief systems. Laharl, even if your beliefs are true and divinely inspired, what about the belief systems which came before? Or, even more importantly, the beliefs of far off peoples such as Native Americans or South East Asians which involve gods. Are you saying that they're all divinely inspired as well?
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Old 11-15-2006, 08:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: Origin of religion

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Share plz.

Your theory is very farfetched and I've never heard of such mushrooms. Perhaps they just got them high and they assumed they saw divine beings. Whatever.
thats exactly what the theory states. If you have tripped on mushrooms you might have a better understanding why these uneducated, less conscious humans might have percieved these beings as divine.
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: Origin of religion

Chemcially unbalanced, uneducated and hallucinating does not a God make.
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: Origin of religion

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Well first of all, you dont have to act like a prick. And to answer your question, I meant to put up there what people's thoughts on the theory were
This isn't a forum for surveys; it's a forum for thinking. It's ESPECIALLY not a forum for flaming, either, so watch your tongue here.

Nevertheless, if it's turned in the right direction, this thread has some hope.

Any more sidetracking onto the wrong aspects of religion (Laharl, Afro, dragons, I'm looking at y'all), though, and it's going to be locked. Keep it topical.

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Old 11-15-2006, 11:06 PM   #25
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Default Re: Origin of religion

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Chemcially unbalanced, uneducated and hallucinating does not a God make.
Well its very well possible a god makes these, although I do not believe that. Where did this god come from, how would he have come into "being"?

Is not nature equally wondrous by imagining that it has all come into being on it's own? I guess there is no way of proving the existence of "god" or a higher being, and this may possibly never be proven. But if it could be proven, then maybe we might know how religion came to be.

And about what you said about this is not for surveys guido, i saw a survey about the bible...... thought it would be ok if I did to, doesen't really seem to harm anyone, but if not then sorry, im new.

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Old 11-15-2006, 11:19 PM   #26
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Default Re: Origin of religion

You realize there are headbangers that get together and listen to some pretty messed up music. They claim that after slamming their brains into the backs of their heads that they have vision, if anything its nothing more than a trick of the mind. I just dont think that i want to believe that the whole foundation for religion came from some guys way back when who got high.
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: Origin of religion

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You realize there are headbangers that get together and listen to some pretty messed up music. They claim that after slamming their brains into the backs of their heads that they have vision, if anything its nothing more than a trick of the mind. I just dont think that i want to believe that the whole foundation for religion came from some guys way back when who got high.
I dont blame you, and i respect your belief. Tripping would be the proper word, although its not relevant. The things you see while under the influence of psilocybin are so vivid and crazy, you have to at least acknowledge how this scenario could have came about. I mean hell, spores could have drifted through space and landed here, and what these people were seeing while on these mushrooms could very well be gods, maybe the gods who made the mushrooms, and even the earth and ourselves.... although it seems farfetched.
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:43 PM   #28
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Default Re: Origin of religion

Well, right. It's perfectly feasible that at some point in time before 'civilized' culture, people ate mushrooms and thought they saw God. But that's kind of a silly reason to make a thread, and I highly doubt that that's the reason behind the creation of organized religion.
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Old 11-16-2006, 12:25 AM   #29
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Default Re: Origin of religion

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Well, right. It's perfectly feasible that at some point in time before 'civilized' culture, people ate mushrooms and thought they saw God. But that's kind of a silly reason to make a thread, and I highly doubt that that's the reason behind the creation of organized religion.
Do you think the existance of god is a more feasible explanation?
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Old 11-16-2006, 02:00 AM   #30
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Default Re: Origin of religion

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Do you think the existance of god is a more feasible explanation?
There are a lot more feasible explanations aside from that of hallucinogens. How can you explain the creation of the Eastern religions such as Buddhism, or Islam, where intoxicants are forbidden?
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Old 11-16-2006, 02:17 AM   #31
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Default Re: Origin of religion

Buddhism isn't exactly a religion as we look at it. It's basically a guy, named Buddha, that said "These are principles on which to live" and people follow those. His ideas on Nirvana and such are not based in any doctrine other than his words. He's not some God, just a man that had some interesting ideas on how everything works. You can be Buddhist and still practice another more orthodox Western religion.
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Old 11-16-2006, 10:02 AM   #32
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Default Re: Origin of religion

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Buddhism isn't exactly a religion as we look at it. It's basically a guy, named Buddha, that said "These are principles on which to live" and people follow those. His ideas on Nirvana and such are not based in any doctrine other than his words. He's not some God, just a man that had some interesting ideas on how everything works. You can be Buddhist and still practice another more orthodox Western religion.
Ok then, what about Shinto?

ps with how Buddha is venerated, I'd say he's right on the same level as a god in most people's eyes, even if he isn't literally defined as one by the religion.
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Old 11-16-2006, 10:29 AM   #33
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Default Re: Origin of religion

Just because someone is viewed in a god-like status by the rest of the world doesn't make him a god.

My comment was purely to point out to people calling Buddhism a religion that it's not a religion so much as a way of thought. It'd be like calling Nihilism or Existentialism a religion. That is all I meant.

Shinto is a pretty interesting religion. I'll have to talk about the little I know of it when I return from class, though. Gotta run.
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:03 AM   #34
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Default Re: Origin of religion

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There are a lot more feasible explanations aside from that of hallucinogens. How can you explain the creation of the Eastern religions such as Buddhism, or Islam, where intoxicants are forbidden?
Well..... almost, Japanese priests of Soto Zen who are Buddhist are allowed to consume alcohol. Followers of Hinduism used marijuana, and consumed Soma.... which is still debated as being the fly agaric mushroom or ephedra, whatever it was.

Im not sure if it can be proven, but was there a religion that has been given credit for the first of religions? And if not which came first? Paganism? Humanism? Animism? Polytheism? I think Astrotheology was the earliest recorded religion, but I may be wrong.

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Old 11-16-2006, 03:57 PM   #35
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Default Re: Origin of religion

I find it odd that someone has to hypothesize that drugs were involved in some of humans most basic behaviours, such as language and religion. If the brain were not already adapted to such things as religious feelings and the capacity to learn language, then chances are the effects of psilocybin on the neural pathways in the brain wouldn't be the same simply because the brain itself would have been different. I mean, all of evolution is almost like what came first, the chicken or the egg, but I'd say its a pretty safe assumption that we developed the capacity for the feelings involved in religion, which then were shared among other people and people got organized about it, and developed into a religion of some type. I would definitely say its safe to say that drugs were definitely involved in the development of religions, but not that they were necessary.

Aside: What sliipstrike said about headbangers, our visual cortex is back there, and its probably caused by cells firing in response to pressure. Your eyes respond to pressure in such a way when they're close and you put pressure on them. You see blobs of color. Of course, the retina isn't visual cortex, so whatever visions are seen when hitting the back of your head are doubtlessly much higher in detail.
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Old 11-16-2006, 06:19 PM   #36
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Default Re: Origin of religion

Hey Cavernio, get on MSN more. :P
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Old 11-17-2006, 05:15 PM   #37
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Default Re: Origin of religion

And trolling CT in a thread that has legitimate discussion I think is slightly more offensive than telling someone who can play nice that they deserve a ban for talking to someone else that can play nice... And debate worth a damn.
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