Old 09-14-2006, 01:58 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Yes, evil or misunderstood; May I put neither of them? As I do not believe he exists, or is this not the forum to talk about that? Must I go somewhere else to post my opinions?
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Old 09-14-2006, 02:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

UGH.

The Devil, Satan, Lucifer, whatever you choose to call him was not given the "job" of kicking sinners' asses for all eternity.

He rebelled against God and so God created the place of eternal damnation for Satan and his followers to suffer for all eternity. Satan does not do the punishing. The punishment IS being in hell forever.

It's in like the very beginning of the Bible, for crying out loud.
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Old 09-14-2006, 05:54 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_unda_doggz
Yes, evil or misunderstood; May I put neither of them? As I do not believe he exists, or is this not the forum to talk about that? Must I go somewhere else to post my opinions?

This thread is NOT, I repeat NOT, about whether or not God or Satan exists, nor does it have anything to do with whether or not religion is right or wrong. If you don't believe he exists because 'ur a cool athiest kid' or whatever, great. It's just that we don't care about that in this thread. And don't get all butt-hurt and be like "can i not express my opinions ;___; ." Sure you can, just do so in the appropriate thread. This thread is about whether or not Satan is evil. And in this thread, it is assumed that Satan exists. This is not the place to be saying "BUT SATAN DOESN'T EXIST BECAUSE I'M SMART ^.^" Just don't post anything.
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Old 09-14-2006, 07:15 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

The devil doesn't exist.
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Old 09-14-2006, 08:12 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Spec said it.
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בקצה השמיים, ובסוף המדבר, יש מקום רחוק מלא פרחי בר
מקום קטן, עלוב ומשוגע, מקום רחוק מקום לדאגה
יש אומרים שם שמשיקרה וחושבים אל כל מה שקרה
אלוהים שם יושב ורואה ושומר אל כל משברא
אסור לקטוף את פרחי הגן
אסור לקטוף את פרחי הגן
ודואג ודואג נורא
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Old 09-14-2006, 09:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

My opinion I don't believe god or Satan exists...but thats beside the point, the question is Devil evil???

That entirely depends on your view...after all his job is to tempt us all, which in that case he eventually gets you in hell. You could say that his job is to keep people who don't deserve to go to heaven out of heaven...He tested Jesus right? but just because he did doesn't mean he is evil...Hell he keeps all the scum bags off this planet and give them what they deserve right?

He is doing what is natural to him though, you don't call a lion evil because it hunts and kills...of course not, this is natural to that animal/person/being...

lol makes me sound like a bible toting preacher...damn Religous Education...
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Old 09-14-2006, 11:16 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lomir
Hell he keeps all the scum bags off this planet and give them what they deserve right?

He is doing what is natural to him though, you don't call a lion evil because it hunts and kills...of course not, this is natural to that animal/person/being...
Try reading the other posts in the thread before giving your opinion, as stretchypanda explained just four posts prior about how incredibly wrong you are.

Satan doesn't punish; God does. It is not natural for Satan to be evil, as he was once an angel. He rebelled against God because he did not like God's good ways.

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Old 09-15-2006, 02:34 AM   #28
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

There is not such thing as evil, just a different points of views.
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Old 09-15-2006, 08:37 AM   #29
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Like I said Jewpin, subjective. CHRIST!
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Old 09-15-2006, 10:45 AM   #30
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Specforces
The devil doesn't exist.
Awesome, that's not the point.
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Old 09-15-2006, 11:46 AM   #31
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

I think for the purpose of this argument we can assume absolute morality (whether or not morality is absolute is a different discussion which might interest Kilga again...) if for no other reason because we're assuming the existence of God and adherence to a portion of Christian theology which clearly believes in absolute morality and that Satan is evil.

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Old 09-15-2006, 08:37 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda
It's in like the very beginning of the Bible, for crying out loud.
Quote me that passage, would you? I would love to find it and never could.

While you're at it, find the rapture in there.

Q
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Old 09-15-2006, 09:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Judging from the title of the thread, I thought we were going to have a philosophical talk about Paradise Lost, which I am supposed to be finishing reading for class on Tuesday.

As to the original subject:

After reading Paradise Lost, it's given me some interesting views on the Devil. In the poem, Milton (the author) presents us with the scenario of Satan and his followers waking up in hell after being tossed there by God. Satan's downfall was his haughtiness, him thinking he could be above The Allmighty. The other devils talk about starting war with Heaven again, but Beelzebub, I believe it was, suggests they go and find out what this Earth thing is all about.

Basically, Satan wants to lead man to fall to spite God. Hell is the torment. Satan is not the inflicter of that torment, but he is the one that tries to lead people there.

In other words, go read what Stretchypanda said.

AND NOW ON TO SOMETHING I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT:

All you prepubecent wanna-be Aristotle tools should stop going along with the flow and discover belief on your own. I guarantee that 99% of people that posted, have posted, and ever will post that they do not believe in Heaven, Hell, God, the Devil, etc., have never honestly sought the truth.

Until you have read a major, or preferrably multiple major, texts of multiple religions, pondered, truly asked yourself if God exists or not, and sincerely prayed about it, you do not know. You can claim to know all you want. But you do not know. You are simply regurgitating the popular bull**** of today's society, that RELIGION is the root of all evil.

If religion is the root of all evil, why does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the Catholic church donate more money to charities and relief efforts worldwide than any other organization world-wide?
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Old 09-15-2006, 09:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

I believe in the Devil, I like the Devil, we get along.
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Old 09-15-2006, 10:17 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reach
Give me a reason to believe the devil actually exists.
Have faith, and read the Bible.
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Old 09-15-2006, 10:27 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Q
Quote me that passage, would you? I would love to find it and never could.

While you're at it, find the rapture in there.

Q
It talks about Satan (or the Devil) in one of the very first chapters of Genesis, in the form of a serpent (a snake).

Cue deception!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
Cue temptation!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis 3:4-5
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Isn't Satan also called "The Deceiver"?

About rapture...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation 7:4
Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel
By sealed, the angel speaking is talking about the Rapture.

And...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jewpinthethird
There is not such thing as evil, just a different points of views.
He is correct. Why do terrorists do whatever they do? We consider it evil, they consider it either brave or good.

Last edited by this_n00b_rocks; 09-15-2006 at 10:30 PM..
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Old 09-15-2006, 10:55 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

n00b, as much as I love your response here I have got to say, I disagree, still. The Bible never explicitly said anything about the serpent being Satan himself. Nor does that explain my orginal (unspecified, but original) question of "where does it show the story of Lucifer and the creation of Hell?"

Also, I'd like to call into your question the Rapture. As I recall, it's a purely American concept that came about in the Great Awakening by John Winthrop. However, I could be mistaken. I'd just like proof that the thousand gross mentioned are really in reference to the Rapture.

Q
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Old 09-16-2006, 12:49 AM   #38
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

n00b, thanks for your help, but Q wants the quote where the Lucifer is cast out of Heaven, which I will not pretend I can provide, as I have no idea where my Bible is.
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Old 09-16-2006, 01:18 AM   #39
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicCarpetRide
I noticed you called the devil HE, how do you know its not a she.
Lucifer would be a really weird name for a girl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter
(whether or not morality is absolute is a different discussion which might interest Kilga again...)
I have had discussions of morality at other websites since that happened last, as well as having thought privately on the subject. The quick answer, really, was that it has never been logically proven whether morals are absolute or relative (anyone familiar with the is-ought problem should be able to see why this is the case, and I'm rather disappointed in myself for not seeing it earlier), and as such debating them on the internet is a waste of time because odds are the two people involved don't know as much about philosophy as the multitudes of philosophers and mathematicians that have come before them.

Not being more than a relative novice in the field of philosophy, I decided to go with this, since it made sense intuitively to me and is easy to explain. Plus I don't have the credentials, energy or patience to attempt sufficiently deep analysis as to be on the same plane as Aristotle, Plato, Nietzsche and the like.

People are perfectly free to believe in either absolutism or relativism because neither side can prove the other wrong, as long as they recognize that no matter which side they choose they can't assume it to be true and use it as the basis of a logical argument, because their side has never been proven to be universally true in the first place. My personal code of ethics still dictates that morals are relative (which is strange because I am a Methodist and thus should probably be assuming the Christian moral teachings to be universal, although I guess this qualifies me as a Kierkegaardian existentialist), but I now know better than to assume that to be fact when debating morals.

But I digress. The important thing is that arguing ethics, morals or religion on the internet is exceeding stupid because everyone believes different things and internet-age people tend to get feisty when their deepest personal beliefs are questioned or otherwise attacked.
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Last edited by Kilgamayan; 09-16-2006 at 01:38 AM..
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Old 09-16-2006, 03:13 AM   #40
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Default Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Specforces knows what I am talking about. ^_^
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