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#21 | |
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FFR Simfile Author
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Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation for more info
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#22 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 310
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Quote:
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Every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lives here on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam. http://obs.nineplanets.org/psc/pbd.html |
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#23 |
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FFR Simfile Author
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Well, I've never heard of time dilation being called time travel. It's generally defined by science fiction to be the ability to travel through time, which is a seperate entity of time dilation.
If time dilation is time travel then we do it all the time When you get up and walk you are in fact time dilating...lol!*runs downstairs and tells mom that I just time traveled* Actually, it was more along the lines of running through the living room yelling out 'im time dilating mutha ****a' The simple pleasures in life XD
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Last edited by Reach; 06-11-2006 at 07:08 PM.. |
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#24 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2005
Age: 31
Posts: 273
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#25 |
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FFR Simfile Author
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All while reiterating my point! See, it would be silly to define time dilation as time travel because any change in energy /gravitational field causes time dilation.
If you had a clock accurate enough you could indeed measure time dilation by running around, though, it would have to measure something like 20 places past the decimal XD
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Last edited by Reach; 06-11-2006 at 07:20 PM.. |
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#26 |
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DADALADAH
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I was thinking that maybe time travel is possible if you can't change anything, you can only observe, which led me to an interesting thought (i didn't read the entire topic so if this was said already I apologize)
Does the past really exist? It happened, sure, but does it still exist? Which lead me to this thought: There is no real such thing as the present or the future. The present is always the past. There is no accepted length of time for it to be "right now." As i type right now, my actions are in the past. When you read this, it will be the past. But is there really a present?
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#27 |
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caveman pornstar
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The present can't be measured, but it exists, in the same way that a point has no dimension but still exists.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREnpHco9mw |
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#28 |
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FFR Player
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Also people are ignoring the fact that if it was not possible to travel through time nothing would happen. So the real question is can we modify the speed of our travel through time. http://www.rebelscience.org/Crackpot...us.htm#Nothing is a relevant article talking about travel through time. But one of the most clear and understandable points to me was how would you measure time travel? Would it be something like 1s per 5s? Then you would simplify to a speed of just 1/5, with no units, which just is not acceptable.
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#29 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 310
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Have any of you seen Stephen King's "The Langoliers"? It deals with this subject, but it seems to hold a view completely opposite to everyone here.
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#30 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 269
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k. If time is a quasi-spatial dimension of the space-time continuum, as almost everyone seems to agree, then time travel is essentially meaningless within one universe.
First imagine a flat, perhaps square universe. Flat people living on the flat world move around on it. Let's say the lifetime of this universe is 10 minutes. If you looked at the flat square for 10 minutes you'd see everything happening for its lifetime. Now imagine that you took a snapshot of this square universe at infinitesimal intervals and stacked them at infinitesimal distances to each other. Now you'll have a rectangular prism, and if you pull out an infinitely thin slice at any point along the new "depth" you've created you'll have a particular moment of the 10 minutes for which the universe existed. In essence you have created a 3-D space-time continuum, in which two of the dimensions are tangibly spatial (to the people in the continuum) and the third dimension is a "quasi-spatial time dimension". (The third dimension in this case is the dimension along which we "stacked snapshots"). Now you just have to imagine this in four dimensions and you'll have a general idea of what our universe would be like, if we accepted our time dimension as a quasi-spatial dimension. Now take our flat world again, and imagine only the people on the flat world, extended through "10 minutes" of the third dimension that was added. For simplicity's sake, think of two people shaped like circles. Let's say they just sat there for all of the ten minutes. Then in their 3-D continuum, their "total shape" including their time dimension would look like two cylinders. If over the course of the 10 minutes, the two circles rotated around each other, for example, then their "total shape" including their time dimension would look like a double helix. If the circles bounced off each other, you'd get an "X" shape. You can extend this to more complex motions, obviously. Notice that you can't get something like, for example, an "H" shape (assuming the time dimension is the vertical component of the H), because for that to happen, looking at the tangibly spatial dimensions only, there would suddenly have to be a "bridge" between the two circles for no reason that would then disappear again, breaking what we would consider our "laws of physics". So the cross section of the continuum representing the tangibly spatial dimensions must always contain the same area, if you represent energy as mass as well (which is the first law of thermodynamics). Essentially, the physical laws are simply restrictions on the form of the "total shape" of the sum of the particles in the universe, if you think about it. When one extends this concept to our own space-time continuum of three tangibly spatial dimensions and one quasi-spatial time dimension, one might say that we all exist in a timeless 4-dimensional instant, along which our consciousness "parses". If you take into account quantum randomness it becomes a bit more complicated but I think the general idea still holds. So now I think the main problem with the concept of time travel is this: if you "travel back in time", by the conventional meaning of the phrase, your current body and self would simply be transplanted into a previous era. However, that means you are maintaining a continuity of time along your own lifetime which loops back on itself. Since time is a dimension of our existence along which our consciousness travels, this doesn't really make much sense. Furthermore, if I went back in time from today, 2006-06-12 to, let's say, 1980-04-15, where exactly would I be? What's the reference point? I might be on a different point on the globe, depending on the difference in time of day. Or I might suddenly materialize in space in a part of Earth's orbit that Earth is not currently occupying. Heck, the entire solar system is moving within the galaxy, and the galaxy is moving too, depending on what reference point you're using. If you think of the normal course of events (i.e. without time travel) then it's obvious where you will be, because your position will be relative to where you were before, and the integration of your velocity. But by moving things back in time you sort of are disregarding causality and breaking the physical laws that restrict form of "total shape", as I said before. A simpler consequence of this is also that you're breaking the conservation of mass by moving things to different locations along the "time line" (the quasi-spatial time dimension). But all of this is moot since the universe is a timeless 4-D "instant", because nothing can change in a timeless place unless you add another time dimension along which it changes. Remember that change can only happen over time - the definition of change is a difference between something earlier in "time" and what it "changed to" later on in "time". Once you're looking at time as a direction along which to move, you can't also use it as the reference point for your changes to time (i.e. your putting yourself in it). I could go on, but there's just a huge number of things that don't make sense about time travel, and that in fact just relegate its very plausibility to an illusion of the mind. There may be a way to accomplish the semblance of "time travel" (i.e. allowing us to interact with something we perceive to be our past) but it doesn't even make sense to say that we can affect our own past. -fs |
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#31 | |
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is against custom titles
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Quote:
You can't measure an eight inch long object as seven inches long. You can, however, make an eight inch long object seven inches long simply by accelerating it, as per Lorentz Contraction. The reason you couldn't measure it is because the measuring device would also contract, as it is moving at the same speed, and if it were moving at a different speed the object couldn't be measured due to the impossibility of simultaneity with regard to time and space dilation (the two objects would have to be colocal). --Guido http://andy.mikee385.com |
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#32 |
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Boss of all bosses
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Time dilation exists, but time travel does not. Although time dilation is very similar to time travel, while time travel happens in an instant while dilation does not. So say you orbit the earth for three years at 99% lightspeed. When you come back down, 150 years has passed for everyone else. So you'll have great grand-kids your age. Many new presidents have been elected (assuming the U.S. has stayed a democracy), and we may be at peace or at war with another country.
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#33 |
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is against custom titles
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Holy ****, it's Cypher.
I still wouldn't rule out time travel or (moreso) instantaneous transport, but it would be near impossible for us were it possible at all. --Guido http://andy.mikee385.com |
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#34 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1
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if someone were to travel back in time and change something how would you know. And if someone did change something they would have an immediate understanding of what they did and how it turned out wouldn't they? because up until the time they traveld throught time they would be living in the changed world and would have no idea that it was him that changed it. but really what is time it's just how long it takes the earth to rotate so how could you go back.....and what is the past? just your memories and how you precived things, so to go back in time you would in a sense have to convert everyones memories into reality which would only allow you to go back a limited amount of years. If any of this makes sense tell me becasue i always confuse myself when i think about this subject......
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#35 |
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Boss of all bosses
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I read my response, and I realized what I typed was not exactly what I meant. That first sentence was more of a recap of the general consensus of the thread.
From what I have heard, the only way to go back in time was to go faster than the speed of light. Then I didn't really get the explination of why that was so. But they said that if one were to go back in time, it would create an alternate reality for that person, since the have gone back and changed the past by just being there. and something bothered me. A black hole is not a rip. It's a super-massively dense mass. Sorry, that just kinda bothered me when I read it.
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#36 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 310
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Quote:
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Every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lives here on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam. http://obs.nineplanets.org/psc/pbd.html |
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#37 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 31
Posts: 109
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Theory of Relativity states if we go the speed of light - Time as we know it, will stop. Also, as we go faster (Near the speed of light) time slows down and things APPEAR to get shorter. And going faster then the speed of light would make it seems that we're heading back in time. Example of that: Your traveling 4x the speed of light to another planet. You land there. Now since you're going faster then the speed of light, the light that would first get to you is when you first landed, so you would see yourself going backwards. Bad explanation, but deal with it. You obviously never read about the theory of relativity. You lose, sorry. Last edited by Idonnoimconfused; 06-14-2006 at 04:12 PM.. |
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#38 | |
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is against custom titles
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Also, Lorentz contraction exists. There is no "appear". And why do you go spouting off about what happens if we go faster than the speed of light? We can't, so don't suggest you or anyone knows what would happen. --Guido http://andy.mikee385.com |
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#39 | ||
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FFR Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 31
Posts: 109
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Quote:
Also, yes it is. Quote:
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#40 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 310
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Quote:
I do not see where you even attacked any one of my points, or disagreed. Someone already pointed out that I was talking about time dilation and not time travel, but as to the rest, my points did not contradict yours. Also, drop your "you lose, you don't know anything" routine. Why be a smart-ass and insult others for no worthwhile reason? It's much easier to discuss this stuff in a friendly manner, and in this thread I do not recall making an offensive statement to you or anyone else.
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Every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lives here on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam. http://obs.nineplanets.org/psc/pbd.html |
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