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#21 | |
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He who angers you conquers you. ~Elizabeth Kenny |
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#22 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 310
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Every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lives here on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam. http://obs.nineplanets.org/psc/pbd.html |
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#23 | |
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FFR Player
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He who angers you conquers you. ~Elizabeth Kenny |
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#24 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 310
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Quote:
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Every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lives here on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam. http://obs.nineplanets.org/psc/pbd.html |
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#25 | |
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FFR Player
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He who angers you conquers you. ~Elizabeth Kenny |
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#26 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 269
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Grandiagod, you have to define what exactly Christianity is before you can argue against it. I think it's pretty fair to assume you're talking about the bible, if you don't specify IN PARTICULAR otherwise.
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#27 | |
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FFR Player
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He who angers you conquers you. ~Elizabeth Kenny |
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#28 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Yes, but what you don't seem to see is that you're not making a connection between your examples and Christianity as a whole - i.e. people can easily call themselves Christian without those examples necessarily applying to them. If that was your intent then I don't really see where you're going with this essay.
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#29 | |
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FFR Player
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He who angers you conquers you. ~Elizabeth Kenny |
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#30 |
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It's hard to talk about such a thing, because of how sensitive it is, which is kind of ironic. I didn't actually read all of the first post, but I feel like discussing openly.
Christianity has been controlling man for centuries. As a matter of fact, christianity used to be the law, more or less. It was absolutely impossible to claim something as insane as the earth revolving around the sun without losing your life. And as it hasn't changed much, naturally many of the same techniques are still used, and they're still controlling. Look at the power of organised religion over the people and you will see it. But guess what, things like that are just outdated now, just as christianity is becoming outdated. I dare to say its image of God is far too primitive. It just doesn't fit the picture anymore, people are starting to notice, and of course they don't like that. There's nothing wrong with a good message, but there's more to religion than just love and happiness. And uh, just because I feel like saying it, I absolutely cannot stand people that go around preeching the word/ come to your door and try and recruit me. Piss off. Seriously. These people annoy everyone XD! edit: ok, I finished reading your post. A lot of it is simply logical truth I agree with XD
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Last edited by Reach; 05-31-2006 at 05:25 PM.. |
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#31 | ||
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 269
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Also, keep in mind that the true teachings of almost all churches are not generally known well by your average churchgoer - like I said, before dismissing Christianity (at least Catholicism) as out of date, I suggest you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church - I'm not a Christian or even religious but it is surprisingly modern and informed, especially compared to the bundle of superstition that is the Bible (when taken literally). |
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#32 |
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let it snow~
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Pay attention in church and you'll learn a few things about the religion you're all defending.
BACK IN THE DAY, religion was a means of huddling together and standing strong against the evil that lay before them, whatever that may be. People went to church because they feared the wrath the god of Christianity would bestow upon them if they did not, or feared the afterlife of eternal torture and pain. Either way, they put faith in the belief that showing faith for an omniscient and omnipresent nonhuman being meant they would be granted a pleasant afterlife. Religion has changed whether you think it has or not. Religion used to be the center of everybody's life. There were no grudges about four-hour masses on weekdays and longer ones on weekends, because this was life. Nowadays, the general message I get from going in a church has been one simple message: "Give us more money to gather more members." Every sermon, every homily, every summary of a mass I have heard has had this underlying theme to it. Ever notice that they pass around that collection basket two or three times now, instead of just that once? Oh, and about that basket. You sure feel bad not putting anything in it, eh? Part of that community thing. If someone in your neighborhood were sitting next to you and had put money in, then handed it to you and looked at 'ya, you'd feel mighty sullen if you didn't donate as well. But then again, none of this matters. There's a schism in this world as to how people portray religion. You have die-hard religious people (very few). You have those who THINK they are die-hard religious people (very many). Then you have those who are not religious WHO NEED TO BE SAVED. It is very rare that someone from one side of this schism should cross over into the other side. It's like a Democrat voting for a Republican or vice-versa. Not only will they not cross this line, they will not even glance at the other side. This is why religion is banned from discussing on Critical Thinking. It's a topic that very few can take objectively. Very few people can look at both sides of a religious debate, or can admit that what they have said is wrong. Proof of that is scattered everywhere in this thread. For the record, I was a Catholic for 15 years and went to a Catholic school for five. Baptized, Confirmed, the works. Even went to a youth group during high school, and dropped the religion partly through that little escapade without telling anyone. I read a few books around that time that utterly convinced me of exactly what Grandia is trying to state. Changed my life, and I believe I am better for it. Few years later, my friend joined me in converting from Catholicism to nothing. Same reasons, same method. I hereby proclaim right now that you can say anything you wish to say in reply to my statements, and I will surely read them, but I will not reply to them because this back-and-forth quote war is stupid and gets you absolutely nowhere. ~Squeek |
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#33 | |
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Super Scooter Happy
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I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds. |
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#34 | |
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FFR Player
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On a side note, I was raised Baptist and about age 14, actually started to question my faith and the rest is history.
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He who angers you conquers you. ~Elizabeth Kenny |
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#35 | |
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is against custom titles
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--Guido http://andy.mikee385.com |
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FFR Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Also, since you said you are not going by the bible I would hope you wouldn’t make awful blanket statements like “A club where all others are doomed, and only Christians can be saved.” Find a group of different Christians, express yourself as a non-religious but spiritual person, and see how many tell you that you are going to hell. I actually had a high-school teacher run this experiment in one of my classes, about one-third to one-half of the Christians said that they thought he would go to hell. If you are going to make blanket statements like this and then state that you can’t cite some source of Christianity like the bible to address points, I recommend that you just close this thread now… If you feel you can speak for the whole, you better find some source from which the whole unequivocally abides. Quote:
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Matthew 6:5-8 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask Him Yes, those proselytizing you are actually Christian hypocrites. After all, Christianity says that no man is perfect, they all have their faults… Quote:
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Furthermore, I would like to stress that there is absolutely nothing wrong with something that defines a moral compass. Creating a moral compass gives society common goals and beliefs which allow individuals to all work in the same direction. It makes society more homogeneous so that the gain for one person is more of a gain for all other people because a good for one person is seen as a good for another. Quote:
TASS EDIT - Sup ap.
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We must know. We will know. Last edited by Tasselfoot; 06-1-2006 at 12:30 PM.. |
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#37 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Nj
Posts: 20
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I am half a christian cause I done half the stuff christian will do and wont do. I found this post quitew ravishing but never had the time to finish reading it. Will someone give me a short version? Thank you
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Katie "Peach" Chen |
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#38 |
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FFR Veteran
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To me, Christianity is a termed used generally to discribe more people than it actually is.
For instance: If Christianity is based on Bible principles, then anyone expressing and doing ANY of the grandigod's arguements aren't Christians themselves. Doing so violates many bible texts (won't quote them but they are there.) and therefore makes you no better than "those going to hell." Which doesn't make you a christian, obviously. Grandigod does make good points, I liked Reach's points better but they say the same thing for the most part IMO. But they do apply to more things than just christianity. I mean you could apply some of those same arguements to the FFR community. What you guys define as christianity....(caths, lutherans, bapt, meth, etc, etc) doesn't have the answers. The Bible has the answers, but lol at their failed attempt to apply/understand them. And now that society is smarter (in a scientific/technological sense) "christianity" doesn't have the answers to why things happen. But the Bible does.... |
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#39 | |
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Resident Penguin
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The problem comes when, as always, the group with this constructed moral compass attempts to force dissenters away or convert them. Religion turns out to be, like so many other social contructs (race, class, ethnicity), to be an incredibly unifying force for those within the group and an even more divisive force for those in other groups. And to address that quote directly... your second question doesn't necessarily logically follow from the first, as it assumes that without a moral compass, one lives in fear of death, or that with a moral compass, one does not live in fear of death. Reality is much more murky than that, as many who belong to religious institutions are still probably afraid of death, and many who don't are probably not afraid of death. Obviously there might be differences in the extent of fear, but without any data known offhand it's impossible to say if those differences would be significant. Furthermore, I think those two questions obscure what the true "benefit" of religion is (that I discussed earlier and what this thread is all about). Yes, a good religion should provide answers to basic questions like "why am I here?" etc and can also provide guidance for how to live your life. But these are not the reasons people are religious. People are religious because being in a religion means that you belong to something, to a group. You are surrounded by people who share your beliefs, by people who will all protect each other from danger. It's the social feeling of belongingness that hooks people to religion. Religion is inevitable. People will always find ways to group themselves together. It's evolutionary. If you're part of a group, you have more help when danger comes than if you're all by yourself. So I kinda forgot where I was going with this post. but those are my thoughts... yeah. |
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He who angers you conquers you. ~Elizabeth Kenny |
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