Old 04-27-2006, 10:51 PM   #41
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

I'll do what I can to try and answer them, Z3r, but you'd be best off asking a biologist. If it had significant holes it wouldn't be a scientific theory, but it is.

Still, though, the Second Law governs all; it's inescapable, so my proposition is only a logical following from that.

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She has an asshole, in other pics you can see a diaper taped to her dead twin's back.
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Old 04-28-2006, 01:26 AM   #42
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

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Originally Posted by Z3ratul
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with the illusion of free thought
Elaborate on this please.
The idea here is that we are entirely products of our environment, and of chemicals and hormones, etc. Everything you do, everything you know, everything you think about is a product of everything else that's ever happened to you, along with human instinct.

For example, you can sit there and thing, and then think back through your train of thought to see why you thought of what you did. Everything you do follows patterns like that.
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Old 04-28-2006, 10:46 PM   #43
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

I agree with what you say Rai, as I've always thought that way too. But I just wonder that if everything in my life were to happen exactly as it did with the only factor not being 100% controlled is myself, would I (not myself exactly, but a copy) make EVERY single choice the same as I did this time around. If so... I can't help but be a little depressed when I think about that. I would like to believe, that to at least some extents, we have some choice.

EDIT: Guido, it's appreciated, but not really something I wanna worry myself with right now.
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Old 04-29-2006, 04:34 AM   #44
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

This thread has really gone of topic. It's about Thorax's dumbass idea on alternate universes and now we are discussing evolution and the meaning of life.

I don't really see where a alternative universe would be it kind of hurts my head just thinking about it
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Old 04-29-2006, 05:47 AM   #45
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

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Originally Posted by GuidoHunter
The whole purpose of life and all complex systems is to destroy energy gradients. The more complex the life, the better this is done, hence evolution. The purpose of reproduction is to further produce other destructive organisms.

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Life and complex systems don't need purposes. They may have follow a certain similar pattern but that does not give them purpose.

To assume purpose is to humanize the universe, and the universe is not human.

Human intuition sees the progression of cause and effect, applies a certain level emotion to the natural laws, and then derives some desire for a purpose out of it, which is where the search for meaning comes from.

A simple example is that consider a baby just walking, with a developing intuition. Throw a ball across a room and the baby will stumble and chase it. 24 months later, the same child in the same situation will stop to see where the ball came from first. Our minds quickly mature to understand this concept of cause followed by effect.

The more developed intuition becomes, the farther it will draw lines of cause and effect. When it comes to ulimately ambiguous endings, it comes to the desire for a purpose. The mind doesn't truly mature until it realizes that purpose was never inherent. We want some overarching cause and some overarching effect to make things seem "complete" for us because we cannot fathom anything that functions outside cause and effect.

When we cannot draw a line we must not then break Occam's Razor (which I'm pretty positive is general knowledge in CT) and make unnecessary assumptions. The simplest explanation is that there is no purpose, and no meaning.

Purposes aren't necessary. Meanings aren't inherent. These are things fabricated by human intuition.

Nonetheless, I agree that according to the way things seem that the primary end result of all complex systems is destroyed energy gradients, but I must disagree that it is their "purpose".
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Old 04-29-2006, 06:42 AM   #46
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

Suprisingly that made alot of sense to me. I think you should write a book of some sort.
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Old 04-30-2006, 01:30 AM   #47
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

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Originally Posted by Z3ratul
I would like to believe, that to at least some extents, we have some choice.
Sure you would, but it's only a mental illusion. You, as a human, are entirely predictable. There is no choice, but at the same time you have to live your life as if there is in order to properly function.

A wonderful read on this subject is http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/horror.html
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Old 05-1-2006, 11:14 PM   #48
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

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Originally Posted by TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons
Sure you would, but it's only a mental illusion. You, as a human, are entirely predictable. There is no choice, but at the same time you have to live your life as if there is in order to properly function.

A wonderful read on this subject is http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/horror.html
I've always enjoyed that site. Nice little read, but I can't say I haven't thought about that possibility since I was 12. Hence my view on fate (or Determinism for the technically inclined). I see nothing wrong with an illusion personally, if that's the case. The idea that I've risen above others' ignorant bliss, and while aware, am still bound... I love it.

And while I could bring up the Quantam Physics argument, but it really doesn't seem worth it. Somehow, the problem with the argument is the seeming paradox. These arguments are just as plausible as religious ones... you can hold the same conviction with either, and create a logical 'wtfpwnt' towards either. Essentially, what I'm saying, is while this may lack the same cliche religious ideas as does most religions, it still is, essentially, religion. Perhaps I'm being unclear... if needed, I'll try to elaborate.

Let me ask you, regardless of whether we know that information in the article or not, we're bound to act the same way... it leads me to wonder, we're going to get (seemingly) the same results even if we lived in a truly 'free' reality... so what difference does it make? It doesn't matter, life is perception, blah blah blah. Again, leading me back to Hedonism... I like Family Guy. If you logically explain to me how said Family Guy does not exist, I'll ignore you and go watch Family Guy.

But the article... I'm still trying to decypher WHY he would write it (please don't say he was predetermined to write it)... seems like a Swiftian style... Philosophy lol. Still, good stuff Rai.
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Old 05-2-2006, 03:12 AM   #49
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

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Originally Posted by TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons
Sure you would, but it's only a mental illusion. You, as a human, are entirely predictable. There is no choice, but at the same time you have to live your life as if there is in order to properly function.

A wonderful read on this subject is http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/horror.html

So Rai you are saying that we have no free will what so ever.
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Old 05-2-2006, 04:44 AM   #50
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

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So Rai you are saying that we have no free will what so ever.
Essentially.

Have fun thinking about that.
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Old 05-2-2006, 07:08 AM   #51
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Default Re: alternate unicycles what do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons
Essentially.

Have fun thinking about that.
Damn you and your logic to hell
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Old 05-2-2006, 09:42 AM   #52
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

If anything, of an alternate universe, it would take so much particle expansion to have enough power to rip the space time continuum into shreads. Therefore, if it was to destroy time itself, we can all kiss our asses goodbye.
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Old 05-2-2006, 09:57 AM   #53
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

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If anything, of an alternate universe, it would take so much particle expansion to have enough power to rip the space time continuum into shreads. Therefore, if it was to destroy time itself, we can all kiss our asses goodbye.
You know what you're talking about.
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Old 05-2-2006, 04:59 PM   #54
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Default Re: alternate unicycles what do you think?

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Originally Posted by mattyohh
Damn you and your logic to hell
It's ok, you can go kill him. Don't worry, it won't be your fault- it was predertimined to happen that way. Plus, you'll feel better knowing he's dead. ^_^
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Old 05-5-2006, 02:18 PM   #55
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

Lol.
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Old 05-5-2006, 04:45 PM   #56
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

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Lol.
Not CT
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Old 05-5-2006, 05:14 PM   #57
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

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Originally Posted by laughsitup2005
If anything, of an alternate universe, it would take so much particle expansion to have enough power to rip the space time continuum into shreads. Therefore, if it was to destroy time itself, we can all kiss our asses goodbye.
I thought time was just a illusion created by humans.
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Old 05-5-2006, 05:18 PM   #58
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

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Originally Posted by mattyohh
I thought time was just a illusion created by humans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_physics
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Old 05-5-2006, 06:15 PM   #59
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

How did alternate universes turn into if heaven and hell existed, the purpose of a person's existence, then to humans being entirely predictable (which I firmly support as well), and then to what the illusion of time is?

About alternate universes, if they did even exist, we would have no way of knowing exactly what it is. If it affects us in the way that we could tell anything about it, then it wouldn't be an alternate universe.

So let your imagination make up the craziest, most bizare theories about what an alternate universe would be like. I'll see you later.

I think what you did is categorize all the possiblities thorax.
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Old 05-7-2006, 03:34 AM   #60
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Default Re: alternate universes what do you think?

So that article was saying there is time, we just kind of invented a way to measure it.
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