Old 03-30-2006, 06:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Then there is easily no point faith.
We are all just going to die anyways.
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Old 03-30-2006, 06:54 PM   #22
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Ok so I read farther into the thread and I realize what the issue is, and I now understand Euclidean frames.

Basically there's a premise not stated in the main argument that's stated in the OP that when something is "possible" it means that it happens on at least one world. So he isn't using the dictionary definition of "possible", and by the Euclidean definition he's absolutely correct.

The problem, of course is the Euclidean assumption in the first place. As he argues later in the thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pansophist
Or put another way, is it reasonable to say that it is possible that a being that exists in every possible worlds exists in at least one world? It seems reasonable to me.
And that's where the issue is. It DOESN'T seem reasonable to me that a possible being must, by simple virtue of being possible, exist in one world.
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Old 03-30-2006, 07:00 PM   #23
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

lol its like mathematical proff the god exits
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Old 03-30-2006, 07:13 PM   #24
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Sounds like Kingdom Hearts to me.
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Old 03-30-2006, 07:28 PM   #25
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMS-Izzy
Then there is easily no point faith.
We are all just going to die anyways.
Yes, but if those who have faith are correct, then life on Earth is relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things aside from being the prereq for getting into heaven (assuming your faith swings that way).

Of course, if those who beleive in no God are correct, then we all spend the rest of existence rotting in the ground. Kinda boring, but certainly a better prospect than eternal damnation.
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Old 03-30-2006, 07:36 PM   #26
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman
And that's where the issue is. It DOESN'T seem reasonable to me that a possible being must, by simple virtue of being possible, exist in one world.
talisman, what you're saying and what pansophist said in the part you quoted aren't the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pansophist
Or put another way, is it reasonable to say that it is possible that a being that exists in every possible worlds exists in at least one world? It seems reasonable to me.
(Emphasis mine) He's starting off with the assumption that a being DOES exist in every possible world. From that, it is easy (and thus reasonable, as he says) to conclude that a being exists in one world (since one is part of every).

You say "a possible being", when the being was assumed to be.

Now, whether or not that assumption was valid (I didn't read the whole essay) is another matter; I just wanted to clear up that confusion.

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Old 03-30-2006, 07:45 PM   #27
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

yeah I did misuse that quote... but what I said is also true of what he meant. I know for a fact that he said essentially what I just posted many times.

Here I found it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansophist
No, possibly means that it's true in at least one world.
Hope that clears that up.
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Old 03-30-2006, 07:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Alot of the time people use faith to try to explain the un-explainable
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Old 03-30-2006, 08:33 PM   #29
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Guido im trying to keep my cool but your being as stupid as i was. This is going to go nowhere and mal probably knew that before he started.
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:05 PM   #30
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

IN the bible god always appeared to the people and did all that godly things but that never happens anymore and when you hear voice you have mental issue. MAYBE Jesus had a mental Illness. but if God did exist you'd think he'd appear to us like he used in the good old biblical days
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:56 PM   #31
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Maybe he died. But he lived for billions of years before that =/ He wouldnt die in the 2,000 years after humans appeared.
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:01 PM   #32
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Time does not exist. At first humans measured time by the movement and rotation of the Earth, and we still do. If we started out on another planet, say pluto, a day or a year would be drastically different.Also, we base time on decay and use decay as a proof of time. So when people talk of time travel, they talk of returning to the previous state of something.

It's natural for a human to try and explain things. Before the advent of the scientific method and other discovery tools utilizing logic, we used faith because it was unexplainable. To us. That is also why we haven't been able to solidly and irresoutly prove the existence of God. He is unexplainable by His very nature, so we resort to faith when speaking about him. Also, we haven't been able to disprove the existence of God, so we speak in faith when we say he cannot exist.

We can only use logic to explain our immediate physical universe. Not the other (if any) universes. So if God does exist, then some may assume that he exists only in the unphysical universe, while others will maintain that, since He is Supreme, he must exist in all universes. This is all talking in the assumption that such a being does exist.

However, it seems hard to believe that no Greater or Supreme being exists. If not then where did the universe come from? And when we speak of the plane that our universe came from where did that plane come from?

It just seems to make our existence that much simplier to believe in a Supreme Being. So perhaps thats where the idea came from, human laziness. We were too lazy to find the reason by testing it, so we made it up. As has been said, the answer is 42.

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Old 03-30-2006, 10:01 PM   #33
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

God, as a supernatural being, would never die.

The whole Euclidian thing threw me off as it did you, Talisman. But I did get it after a while. "If something that possibly exists is necessary, then it is necessary," or something like that, logically follows as being necessary, because if something within the scope of a Euclidian frame is possible, then it can and will occur in some instance. Then, because necessary is assumed true for all worlds because of the definition of God as a "supreme being", then it all logically follows as true. Euclidian S5 modular logic is a tricky one in that respect.

Like I said, I'll see what my English teacher can come up with. Maybe we'll get something out of what he finds.
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:06 PM   #34
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Izzy-
Guido im trying to keep my cool but your being as stupid as i was. This is going to go nowhere and mal probably knew that before he started.
Wait, huh? What? I pointed out that talisman's point wasn't what he was trying to say, I clarified for Afro what faith is, and I explained to you what relative time is. I haven't actually made an argument, let alone a bad one.

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She has an asshole, in other pics you can see a diaper taped to her dead twin's back.
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:09 PM   #35
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

what's the saying "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." maybe that's what god did except he doesn't have the cool horns
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:17 PM   #36
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

No, no, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he could pull his own thumb off (it was an illusion).
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:36 PM   #37
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

but the thing is how can something just of existed forever he is the begining and the end. i'm not liking this whole idea
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:37 PM   #38
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Izzy-
Maybe he died. But he lived for billions of years before that =/ He wouldnt die in the 2,000 years after humans appeared.
maybe the stupidity of the human race killed him
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:54 PM   #39
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

At the time i wouldnt doubt it.
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:19 PM   #40
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Default Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

what happens if christianty is wrong and scientology is right
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