Old 11-30-2005, 02:49 PM   #1
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Default Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

This is about President Bush telling the American people that Allah and Yahweh are the same god;this was one of the most irritating examples of political correctness i've ever seen.Im not sure what Bushes stance on islam is,he might just be ignorent about what Islam and Allah really are.So im curious to know weither or not most people agree with President Bush on this.
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Old 11-30-2005, 03:08 PM   #2
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

yes/no/maybe
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Old 11-30-2005, 03:15 PM   #3
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Allah = Islam
Yud Vuv Yud Lamad = Jewish (I believe my hebrew characters are correct for the spelling of the word you are using. Jewish doctrine explains that those 4 characters form an unpronouncable word... and therefore, your transliteration is not correct. In its place are other words such as Adonai)

I see no reason why these deities would be the same... the Roman gods were different from Norse and different from Egyptian. Why should mordern monotheistic religions follow different beliefs? Besides, if everyone thought that it was all one god, why would all these religious debates and sluaghterings evolve out the of "my god is better than your god" line?
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Old 11-30-2005, 03:21 PM   #4
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Technically, the Muslims and the Jews worship the same one God. They just have different names for them. That unpronounceable word that Tass mentioned, if spoken phonetically, is "Yehovah" or in Romanized terms, "Jehovah." Also, the God that the Christians worship is also the same one. So technically Bush is right (I HATE when that happens...oh well, even he gets at least one shot in his life).

So, sorry to tell you Love, but you're wrong. They are all the same God--the followers of each religion are simply arguing over which way is the best way to worship/serve/etc. even if they don't see it that way. They may be saying "my God is better than your God" but they don't really understand what they're talking about.

Adonai means "my Lord" and is used in the Torah and in prayers to refer to God. It is actually a pluralistic form in Hebrew (it literally means "my Lords") but when it refers to the deity, it is considered the singular, because Judaism only recognizes the one God.
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Old 11-30-2005, 03:23 PM   #5
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

On an unrelated note... often people refer to me in plural. Perhaps I am a deity as well.


PS - back on topic, I still feel that I'm right... in that if religions are going to fight over whose god is better, they must be worshiping different gods. Logical train, right? And... if you think I'm wrong, we're going to have to fight about it.
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Old 11-30-2005, 03:32 PM   #6
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Although Tass and I are having this lovely fight over AIM, I thought people of religious (or non-religious but curious) bent would like to know this information.

Muslims believe in the same God that the Jews believe in, and that the Christians believe is the father of Jesus. Muslims also believe in the 3 forefathers (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) but (if I recall correctly) are descended from Abraham's older son, Ishmael the son of Hagar, as opposed to Isaac. Mohammad was the prophet, who heard the message of God (Allah in Arabic) through the archangel Gabriel.

In any case, I am not trying to say that your philosophy (Tass's or anyone else's) is wrong, or that mine is right. I am just saying what I have learned in my religion classes, and what the books that these religions are based on say.

Funny note: One of the things Muslims are supposed to do is spread word of their religion and try to convert people--but they don't have to try and convert Jews or Christians (or Zoroastrians, for some reason) because they already worship the correct god, even if they don't do it the Muslim way.

P.S. SUCK IT TREBEK.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:11 PM   #7
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

John 3:16''for God so loved the world that he gave his only son,that who ever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.''ok so thats how you get to heaven according to Jesus.now lets see what muhammed says,Qur'an 9:111''Allah hath purshased of the believers their and their goods;for theirs in return is the garden of paradise:they fight in his cause,and slain:a promise binding them in truth.''Do ya'll notice some thing,suposedly the same god here is contradicting him self.

Matthew 5:21-22''You have heard that it was said to the men of old,'you shall not kill;and whoever kills shall be liable to judgement.but i say to you that everyone who is angery with his brother shall liable to judgement;whoever insults his brother shall be liable to council,and whoever says,'you fool!'shall be liable to the hell fire.''Now the Qurans view on it Quran 47:4''therefore,when ye meet the unbelievers in fight smite at their necks;at length,when ye have thoroughly subdued them,bind a bond firmly on them :thereafter is the time for either generosity or ransom,until the war lays down its burdens....but those who are slain in the way of Allah,he will never let their deeds lost.''Again another contradiction by the supposedly same god,interesting huh,and theres many more.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:26 PM   #8
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Because we know Christianity has never had any contradictions within its own sects.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:28 PM   #9
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Well if you could give me some example that would be great.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:34 PM   #10
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Having not read the detailed beliefs of each and every single Christian sect out there (and having NO CLUE how many there actually are) I can't give you specific examples. But a Southern Baptist would be outraged if his daughter wanted to marry a Presbyterian, no? And the Mormons believe in Jesus (a Jesus who can teleport, apparently) but not in the same terms as Christian Fundamentalists.

And if Q won't post it here himself...
xanderman2064 (5:10:54 PM): I love how this guy implies the Bible never contradicts itself.
xanderman2064 (5:10:59 PM): Just read Genesis.

ETA:
xanderman2064 (5:24:27 PM): There are over 2000 registered Christian denominations in the U.S. alone.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:40 PM   #11
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Cmb, just look at Genesis. The whole creation bit. There are two different ways it happened, according to the actual text. Therefore, the Bible starts off contraticting itself.

My favorite example of the Bible being contradictory are the books of Ecclesiastes and Proverbs. Ecclesiastes tells you that everything but fear of God and worship of him is pointless, you don't have to worry too much about the rest of it. Proverbs, which follows Ecclesiastes directly, goes on to tell you good ways to live your life. Feel the irony soak into you for a minute. Allow me to also point out that God goes from "smite smite smite!" to "love love love!" If you ask me, the Bible is full of blatant sweeping contradictions. So is the Qu'ran and I'm sure the Jewish texts are the same.

One fact that this encompasses is followed better by Muslims than Christians. People wrote the Bible, not God! As we all know, people can be wrong (crusades, genocides, shoving the dualistic nature of deities into each other's faces) and Muslims actually know this. In fact, Muhammad wrote another book of his teachings and mentions in it that what he wrote was what he got out of God talking to him. He didn't know how to word it exactly and didn't agree with all of it himself and he also knew that he was at fault when he put certain things into words. Why Christians have a hard time accepting this, I don't know.

And don't make me pull out some serious dualism, bubs. I've got this stuff backed up and ready to use.

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Old 11-30-2005, 04:44 PM   #12
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

If you want go to ''prophetofdoom.net''if you would like to see the truth between islam and christianity. The guy who put up this website,well first off is name is criag winn and second hes spent two years or over ten thousand hours researching islam.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:50 PM   #13
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Oh wow. Two years and over ten thousand hours of research. Excuse my sarcasm, but I'd prefer to take the opinions of actual Muslims and people who spend more than two years researching a religion that is just slightly more complex than that. I don't think you can learn very much in two years when a religion has behind it over 2000 years of history.

And what do you mean the "truth" between Islam and Christianity? They are two different religions, based on the same God. What truth is there?

And the you mentioned is completely biased against Muslims. They are NOT all terrorists. The terrorists we see on TV are, just like the Christian Fundamentalists, extreme fanatics that should NOT be taken as the norm for the Islamic people. You are completely ignoring this fact.

Again, I'm not saying that what you believe is wrong. But your quoted facts are.

Also...why should the fact that his name is "Criag Winn" be of any importance?

Edited so as not to double post: I just re-read your original post in light of your later replies...

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Originally Posted by cmb
Im not sure what Bushes stance on islam is,he might just be ignorent about what Islam and Allah really are.So im curious to know weither or not most people agree with President Bush on this.
Who are you to judge? You seem just as ignorant about Islam as you believe Bush to be.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:53 PM   #14
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Q, what you just said is like comparing the old testament when we would sacrifice goats for God and then the new testament where we don't anymore. It was because of Jesus' death that everything changed from the way of the old to the new. The reason you think its being contradictory is because you're supposed to do, uhhh I dunno, maybe BOTH? Fear and love God? Does that sound like a hard concept? I love my parents because they bore me and fear them because they can kick my ass out of the house. Doesn't sound all that complicated to me buddy.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:56 PM   #15
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Actually, Chromer, the reason we stopped sacrificing anything is because Beit HaMikdash (the Holy Temple) in Jerusalem was destroyed for the 3rd (?) time. You can't do the sacrifices correctly outside of it. That was way before Jesus and the New Testament.

And I think Q is referring to contradictions within Genesis itself, not just between the Old Testament and the New.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:59 PM   #16
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

Whorli, I did make that generalization and it is a good one. God changed from Old Testament to New. Remember, the Bible was written of thousands of years, and that means that God changed during that time. He went from an angry God to a loving God. Either this means he contradicted himself or there are two deities in the Christian faith.

And if you think about it, I'm pretty sure the devil (not Satan, Satan merely means adversary) might also count as a deity. So much for monotheism, folks.

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Old 11-30-2005, 05:01 PM   #17
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

God didn't change. He is still the same God from thousands of years ago, just now more attuned to this way of life then back thousands of years ago. Back then, you had to worry about things that would seem trivial in this day and age. God is still an angry and loving God. Didn't God himslef say that a liar will not terror in his sight? That's anger buddy. That the ultimate price for the wages of sin is what? Death? Anger again appiled to today. He hasn't changed, the interpretations have, not Him.

Also, what's contradictory about Genesis? God made the Heavens and the Earth, animals and the first humans. Plain and simple son. Unless you want to talk about Sodom and Gomorrah. Then I might have to agree with the whole incest thing between Lot and his daughters.
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Old 11-30-2005, 05:09 PM   #18
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

The Ark of the Covenant...was kept in the Beit HaMikdash. In the "Holy of Holies," the room that only the high priest could enter, and then only on Yom Kippur. I believe it was taken out of the Temple before it was destroyed the last time, but I could be wrong. (Also, Indiana Jones found it, didn't he?)

And...what did that last part mean?

Quote:
Unless you want to talk about Sodom and Gomorrah. Then I might have to agree with the whole incest thing between Lot and his daughters.
Because actually, I believe Noah was the first to engage in incest...sodomized by his sons when they found him drunk and naked in his tent. But I'm not sure how Sodom and Gomorrah show contradiction in the Bible, if that is what you're going for. God said "be nice to travelers and give them hospitality" and they didn't. So he rained fire and doom upon them. (And some people read part of this story as "Sodomites were homosexual, so all gay people need to die." I don't like that part.)

Edit: Woah, you changed a lot of your post while I was replying, Chromer. There was definitely something in there about the Ark and sacrificing stuff.
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Old 11-30-2005, 05:13 PM   #19
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Default RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

But it is a clear sin that man shall not lie with another man nor a woman lie with another woman. It's in Deuteronomy but I can't remember the exact chapter. So overall, we must love one another, but God doesn't like you to be homosexual.
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Old 11-30-2005, 05:45 PM   #20
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Default Re: RE: Are Allah and Yahweh the same God?

THIS JUST IN: The Bible cannot be taken literally. It is not self-consistent and things it says are physically impossible.

Chromer, you say animals came before humans. According to the first creation account, you're right, but not according to the second account.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co.../accounts.html

What about the flood story? Did Noah really collect two of every species, fitting millions upon millions of creatures onto his small boat? Of course not. Well, some people claim he took only 30000 animals and the rest came from that lot. Well, that's still ridiculous to consider. It's just not possible.

There are two genealogies of Jesus descending from David, one in the Gospel of Matthew 1:6-16 and the other in Luke 3:21-31. They disagree in names and number. http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co...ra/gen_ml.html

Check your Bible.

Okay, so now that we've established that the Bible is not a historical or scientific text, I'd like to address the thread topic.

I'm with Whorli on this, but that's just because I've heard that we worship the same God. Muslims believe Jesus was a pretty badass prophet, but they disagree with us on giving him savior status. Is it too much of a stretch to think that we worship the same God? I don't think so. In fact, I find it kind of comforting.

EDIT for Chromer: Leviticus 18:22

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