Old 08-18-2005, 10:09 PM   #21
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Most things in science can't be proven to be true 100% of the time
The best we do is to show that what we say happens 99.99% or that it happens to a certain degree of accuracy, but even our best theories, we can never be sure that they are 100% correct.

There is only one thing in the universe that knows the laws for sure
*drumroll*
The FSM!!

So instead of trying to observe data and things, we must learn to think like the FSM would, bring our minds together.
Remember, the FSM knows all
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Old 08-19-2005, 03:27 AM   #22
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"If god is all powerful, he can create a rock so big that even He himself can not lift it. However, if He can't lift it, He is not all powerful and if He can lift it, He cannot make a rock big enough so again He is not all powerful."
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Old 08-19-2005, 10:01 AM   #23
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He can't create a rock that's so heavy he can't lift it, you know why?
Because he's all powerful.

Try asking God to create a totally new color.

We wouldn't get it.


I think any theory where the universe is a shape is stupid because... it just is. Why would it be a shape?

And if it is, what's beyond the shape? outside it? Isn't the point of defining the universe figuring out how there can be an infinite amount of space and not just giving up and saying it's some shape.

As for expanding and whatever... same thing.

Why would the universe have limits or form? It just doesn't make sense.

I think the universe is just what we see. An infinite amount of space in all directions... we're used to everything being so finite on earth... and I think that's messing with our judgement or something.
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Old 08-19-2005, 04:51 PM   #24
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The universe can be finite but also extending forever in each dimension
we are too n00bish/threedimensional to understand it
It is a theory floating around
The universe could be finite but without any edges, it just wraps around, curves to meet itself
string theory is like, theres a bunch of small curled up dimensions (what at least 9 of them)
but three of them expanded to be the billions of lightyears we now know

BUT they are still curled up, AKA round

think of the analogy of 2d to 3d
what if we were 2d folks who lived on the surface of an orange. we couldnt go towards the center of the orange, because we were only 2 D, but we could go around in circles, but theres no edge, yet its finite

we just dont have enough dimensions to understand

Remember, its just a theory, string theory
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Old 08-19-2005, 04:52 PM   #25
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If the universe curves around to meet itself, does that mean that there's a possibility of another big bang?
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Old 08-19-2005, 05:35 PM   #26
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basically, yeah
like someone says, the universe could eventually stop expanding and the three dimensions could contract back, and bang again
or it could just keep getting bigger
Its not that easy to figure out
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Old 08-19-2005, 06:22 PM   #27
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The universe is finite. It had a beginning, it has an end. It's more of an inflation than a bang if you ask me. The energy is rushing away from eachother in all directions fillin gup space with particles. It is just expanding faster than we could possibly travel, so we can't escape it, but it's still finite.
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Old 08-19-2005, 09:26 PM   #28
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its not that itss expanding fast so we cant escape it
we cant escape it because we dont have enough dimensions

think of the analogy with the orange
we are all 2D ants on the orange
we cant say the orange is 3D from direct evidence, but we can reason it is by how there are no edges but the space is finite
Now just say the orange is getting bigger, Its growing, the space is getting bigger, but there still arent any edges, and theres no point in trying to say we cant escape it, because we are only 2D so we cant get off.
Basically all that happens, is that the space between things increases, things get farther apart, Hubble observed this

yeah so now make us 3D, and the universe like a 4D orange that is expanding, a very big 4D orange
we cant percieve the universe fully, but we can discover its effects through indirect observations, like what hubble saw
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Old 08-19-2005, 10:19 PM   #29
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Well I know what hubble observed, and I've read the basics on string theory. I am only educated to highschool level outside of my own research We don't have enough dimensions to escape it? XD Why would dimensions effect it? That's hard to grasp. The 4th dimension is time is it not? Are you saying like, space is curved or whatever, so, it bends and, we can't escape it because we've just bent around it? I don't know, that ant farm analogy has holes in it. The ants are on the orange. We are in the universe. And if the ants were in the orange they would have to eat through teh peel.
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Old 08-19-2005, 10:23 PM   #30
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Quote:
That's why gravity is still considered a theory.
Law of Gravity?

THEORY of Evolution.

Thank you.

Q
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Old 08-19-2005, 10:28 PM   #31
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4th dimension being time is so 100 years ago

we're in the string theory age now
time is like a pseudo-dimension, its like a dimension but its different than the others
and if you were to put one in string theory, it would be like the 13th or 10th or 16th or something like that

and I too am only educated not even to highschool level outside of my own research - but I read up a lot on string theory, its really interesting
Im going to be a sophmore in highschool XD, but i did take physics freshman year

and the ants cant eat through the peel because theyre 2D ants
they can see that theyre standing on a peel, they think they exist in this nice flat place but they dont realize their flat place is curved

just like we dont realize that our three dimensional place is curved
we cant escape because theres no way out, it just goes in circles, very big circles

although there is this alternate theory about the universe being a saddle, not an orange but that one is really weird and messed up

oh and q, gravity is law because we have never been able to fathom anything going against it, this doesnt mean that its not possible for something to go against it, it just means we havent thought of it yet
Thats why nothing is proven for sure in this kind of science
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Old 08-19-2005, 10:38 PM   #32
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String theory is confusing. It looks like I must research further then though, I don't know how much physics I will be doing in university.

Though I think I know what you mean. That is just, weird though. Because it's something we havn't been able to experience.
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Old 08-19-2005, 10:40 PM   #33
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yeah, I was confused when I first saw the stuff
but now I just pretty much accept that I will never fully understand because I am three dimensional

Whenever theres 4D stuff, I just kinda accept that I am a dimension too short to ever be able to think of it

Only people very high on drugs could possibly visualize it XD
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Old 08-20-2005, 10:29 AM   #34
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Default Alpha Omega

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickendude
The universe could be finite but without any edges, it just wraps around, curves to meet itself
How big are the universes curves? C-cup? lol.

I heard alot of weird stuff from all of you, thnx for the input!

Btw, what i was saying about the nows thing i didn't exactly word very well. This post might provide an explaination:

Now is gone so fast that once we concieve of the now we are thinking of, we have already passed it. In fact, we are wasting valuable nows thinking about now, or playing FFR, or, ah screw it, we have infinite nows anyway. Right?

Which comes to my next clarification: We have infinite nows, but we have already chosen our path because a path was premade as an alternate dimension. When we die, we are just waiting for another one of those alternate dimensions. One action, one now, could be different, or the whole thing could be that your first now is being born as a platypus instead of a human. Since our brains are too simple to keep our memory throughout spiritual movement between dimensions, we completely forget about our past life, if a past life even exists.

An idea that I had, called the Brothers Clan, was formed as an idea that there are multiple universes. The Fish Clan, whom the Brothers Clan are rogues to, use up alot of space to make one big universe. The Brothers Clan, on the other hand, use the extra space that the Fish Clan haven't used to create a universe for every single concept. If that exists, then I have actually created the Brothers Clan through thought, though it probably doesn't.

The First Now (lets use that name instead of G_d, much more fitting in this conversation) is a simple idea. First, there wasn't. Then, the First Now existed out of nothing. Impossible is what most scientists would say. Impossibe would then be known as the First Now.

If the universe loops, it has no end. What would end it? The Last Now. "Alpha and Omega, First and Last." I cannot possibly think of what would happen or lack happening.

Good luck trying to figure that out!

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Captin Chu
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Old 08-20-2005, 10:32 AM   #35
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Default RE: Alpha Omega

Quote:
infinity*infinity^infinity
Wow, what does that come out to? I don't know - maybe infinity?

And there is no last now if there's infinite nows.
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Old 08-20-2005, 10:32 AM   #36
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Default RE: Alpha Omega

I suppose that explains the idea behind deja-vu.
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Old 08-20-2005, 10:38 AM   #37
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Default RE: Alpha Omega

You people and your deja vu theories.

Deja vu does not mean you're gifted with psychic powers, it means your brain screwed up and threw some input from what you're seeing into your memory. Give it up.
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Old 08-20-2005, 10:43 AM   #38
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Default RE: Alpha Omega

Going somewhere else after you die is a very religious thing
Religion is based on faith, which is why science can't accomodate it
I'm not trying to lean toward either one, I'm just making a distinction

the scientific problem with going somewhere after you die is that it assumes that humans are special, that the earth is special. What makes us different than any other blob of matter on some distant planet, with respect to this thing with nows. How do you distinguish a human dying to an asteroid exploding. You can set guidelines but they would have to be quite precise, and the universe doesnt run on stuff like that. As far as the universe can tell, some asteroid crashing into some random planet is no more special then a person getting hit by a car. The whole notion of thinking, scientifically is just some neurons in your brain stimulating random things making you think. Stimulated neurons are just particles, no more special then some atoms on that asteroid hitting that planet.

Basically Religion goes the way of distinguishing humans/life from other blobs of matter

And science (At least physics) goes for keeping general laws for whatever, the laws governing us arent any different than the ones for that asteroid.

EDIT:
oh and infinity isn't a number, you cant multiply by infinity and then put it to the infinity power,
infinity is something you can approach, but you can't reach, so it's not a number
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Old 08-20-2005, 11:06 AM   #39
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Default RE: Alpha Omega

f**k you!! I WILL MULTIPLY INFINITY AS MUCH AS I WANT!!!


And btw, most of the navis in the book I was talking about were animals/aliens. One of the funnier things in my brother/bodyguards homepage is a holy juristiction from a light bending accademy against 64, no, 128 ameobaes. The ameobaes were sentenced to 3000 G_D seconds in a blue sphere, my equivelent to the Christian Hell.
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Old 08-20-2005, 01:41 PM   #40
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Why do you guys try to get all complicated?

I don't think the Universe isn't outside our dimension... not in the least bit.

...and why does everyone think there are more dimensions? We can't completely understand something so we come up with the dumb idea that "oh... well there must be more dimensions".

We invented dimensions to help navigate our 3 dimension world... it's not like we just found a few dimensions and so we think there must be more.

The Universe is just the space in which we're in. I learned in an astronomy class about a lot of these theories and how there's blue and red shift from a certain point indicating that everything came from this one spot... this is the origin of the theory of the expanding universe, etc.

But I believe that the simplest explanation is probably the correct one. What we think is some finite, shaped universe originating from this one point is just like a huge thing. It's this huge thing or space... maybe was a super enormous gas cloud and everything including the galaxies etc that we know of originated from an explosion at that point... however in a big-universe sense your "universe" is simply another piece of star crap based on your misunderstand of how big "infinite" can really be.



Can't believe I bothered.
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