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Old 03-3-2005, 07:50 AM   #21
navyseal101
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OMG....there is some crazy s h i t on this site. Thanks for the website PFFF, I love how they make the anti-bush videos so dramatic with the backround music and the screches and stuff. I don't think I'll get any sleep now though. lol
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Old 03-3-2005, 12:22 PM   #22
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America used nukes back in World War II. There was no knowledge of radiation after-effects, and the horrific destruction of the bomb had reached proportions beyond the calculation of American scientists. Furthermore, the reason the bomb was used was because U.S. soldiers were suffering such incredibly massive casualities on the pacific front that the bomb would be the only solution to the immediate end of the war, and an end to what probably would have been even more deaths than what the bomb brought.
A little known test performed after WWII- the U.S. detonated an atomic warhead in the desert with its own troops nearby. Purposely trying to see what happens to soldiers that survive the initial blast. Out of the 2,500 that were tested on in 1950 (I think), only three were alive
in 1985.

And as far as a nuclear war goes- as of now, fear kept us and russia from launching nukes at each other but against these small terrorist groups with nothing to lose, one nuke will set off a chain reaction that will kill us all.
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Old 03-3-2005, 01:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themanwithsauce
Quote:
America used nukes back in World War II. There was no knowledge of radiation after-effects, and the horrific destruction of the bomb had reached proportions beyond the calculation of American scientists. Furthermore, the reason the bomb was used was because U.S. soldiers were suffering such incredibly massive casualities on the pacific front that the bomb would be the only solution to the immediate end of the war, and an end to what probably would have been even more deaths than what the bomb brought.
A little known test performed after WWII- the U.S. detonated an atomic warhead in the desert with its own troops nearby. Purposely trying to see what happens to soldiers that survive the initial blast. Out of the 2,500 that were tested on in 1950 (I think), only three were alive
in 1985.

And as far as a nuclear war goes- as of now, fear kept us and russia from launching nukes at each other but against these small terrorist groups with nothing to lose, one nuke will set off a chain reaction that will kill us all.
But that experiment proves exactly what I am saying, not until after the bombs were fired at Japan was the knowledge of radiation after-effects obtained. Though it is disgusting that the troops were sacrificed like that.

One nuke fired by the U.S. will lead to fury by every terrorist, every terrorist sympathizer, every liberal, and even a portion of conservatives. It also will not end anything, because new guerilla groups can always reassemble. The age we live in is an age where conventional warfare has become practically extinct.

One nuke fired by the terrorists will bring hope into more terrorists, who will use the incident as a precedent to methods of gaining technology and money to fire more nukes, and a chain reaction will be set off. The world cannot allow that to happen, and "the pleasure" of using a nuke to destroy terrorists is non-existent. The only way terrorists can be repelled is (imo)
A. A total overhaul of military tactics: That includes a need for genuine, fully operating missile defense systems as well as special combat platoons given professional training for urban warfare, repelling guerilla attacks, and mental training to be able to shoot at that young woman (or stop her in the least harmful way) who has the ability to kill a whole squad of men (I know I sound sadistic but the "basic morals" of our day have to be put aside in some of these extremely special cases. The prime example is Saddam's child soldiers).
B. Total dissolving of corruption within Middle Eastern governments. This operation can be done covertly, though the CIA would probably not be an effective intelligence agency to fully carry this out. The U.S. will have to look to all its allies for a unification and plan of operation (Prime example is the Israeli Mossad). There should be an end to propoganda administered by the Saddams of the world, and a hefty aid program intended ONLY to aid (this must be ensured; so many times had the money for aid been stolen to buy weaponry) that should be carried out by a group whose agenda is to carry out specifically those orders. The U.N's increasing rates of corruption show that they are not the best people to rely on for such a program.
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Old 03-3-2005, 03:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navyseal101
crazy s h i t
Don't write that. Especially not in Critical Thinking, where you critically think, instead of critically curse.

Nuclear war is stupid. I mean, look at the relationship between America and Japan now: Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Suzuki, Samsung, etc.
It's almost as if they forgot about what we did and decided to sell crap to us.
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Old 03-3-2005, 04:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trillobyite
Qreepy: You stated that the shiites' sole purpose was as a political tool of the U.S. I was explaining that it was primarily free will.
Oh, they voted by free will alright, but the people we let them put on the ballot were US sympathizers. Well, much more than that, we could probably control many of the interim president's actions, if not almost all of them!

Sure, the Shi'ites voted another Shi'ite into office. But the person they voted in was basically one of ours.




And I thought of more really simple proof that the Depleted Uranium stuff is crap, but I don't feel like posting it unless someone says they are interested.
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Old 03-5-2005, 10:14 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QreepyBORIS
Quote:
Originally Posted by trillobyite
Qreepy: You stated that the shiites' sole purpose was as a political tool of the U.S. I was explaining that it was primarily free will.
Oh, they voted by free will alright, but the people we let them put on the ballot were US sympathizers. Well, much more than that, we could probably control many of the interim president's actions, if not almost all of them!

Sure, the Shi'ites voted another Shi'ite into office. But the person they voted in was basically one of ours.
Even some of the Sunnis are beginning to protest against these insurgents. Their persistance of killing any Muslim who even slightly supports democracy is astounding. The turn against the Saddam supporters by the common Iraqi populace was not forced by America; it is becoming apparent that their own free will, instinct, and plain open eyes show them that these "freedom fighters" are nothing more than bloodthirsty killers.
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Old 03-5-2005, 10:32 PM   #27
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To all of you democrats reading this, don't critisize me because of my political view. Some of my best friends (Alden) are democrat/liberals, and that's never mattered to me. I think it's important to have both sides of an arguement expressed in CT topics, so that people can actually learn something about both views. Well, in most cases I find it best to just place the post, 'No comment.' on topics dealing with things as such, as not to gain/lose any favor by fellow players who disagree with my point of view. However, I also think it's important to share my point of view, so people can agree or argue, hence; Critical Thinking. So here goes:

I'm republican. I honestly think that Iraq would go into some intense mayhem without our troops keeping citizens in line, especially with the election going on. Iraq is our ally, and that's why we're still there, to protect, not invade.
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Old 03-6-2005, 07:51 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MythamX
To all of you democrats reading this, don't critisize me because of my political view. Some of my best friends (Alden) are democrat/liberals, and that's never mattered to me. I think it's important to have both sides of an arguement expressed in CT topics, so that people can actually learn something about both views. Well, in most cases I find it best to just place the post, 'No comment.' on topics dealing with things as such, as not to gain/lose any favor by fellow players who disagree with my point of view. However, I also think it's important to share my point of view, so people can agree or argue, hence; Critical Thinking. So here goes:

I'm republican. I honestly think that Iraq would go into some intense mayhem without our troops keeping citizens in line, especially with the election going on. Iraq is our ally, and that's why we're still there, to protect, not invade.
I agree. Pulling out the troops in the current circumstances would lead to death, anarchy, and pure chaos. Yeah, I mourn for those dead soldiers, but to think that their current deployment in Iraq is in vain would be defiling their memory. They have to stabilize the country, and they cannot pull out midway.
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Old 03-6-2005, 02:16 PM   #29
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Just to let y'all know,I'm IN Iraq right now ,serving in the Army. It's sooooooooooo not about us right now , it's ridiculous.They are having enough problems enacting their political transitions that the provincial council approved, and getting the people who are in effect, not in command any more to leave. The coalition forces are here to observe at this point . I'm in the middle of a potentilly very hostile environment,and you don't see the coalition running around telling people where to go and what to do. It's up to the Iraqi police and National Guard, and we're letting them handle it themselves as much as possible.
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Old 03-6-2005, 03:21 PM   #30
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[quote="MythamX"] Some of my best friends (Alden) are democrat/liberals, and that's never mattered to me.quote]

Eyh! I'm not a liberal!
Conservative Independent to the grave, yo.
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Old 03-6-2005, 03:27 PM   #31
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Mindfields, you cannot hide from avatar! It want's you to want it. It needs you to need it.

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Old 03-6-2005, 04:05 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t_montana
Just to let y'all know,I'm IN Iraq right now ,serving in the Army. It's sooooooooooo not about us right now , it's ridiculous.They are having enough problems enacting their political transitions that the provincial council approved, and getting the people who are in effect, not in command any more to leave. The coalition forces are here to observe at this point . I'm in the middle of a potentilly very hostile environment,and you don't see the coalition running around telling people where to go and what to do. It's up to the Iraqi police and National Guard, and we're letting them handle it themselves as much as possible.
Thanks for being living proof

But honestly, if you talk to most of the U.S. soldiers in Iraq you'll see that America isn't playing a huge part in the common lives of Iraqi civilians. The soldiers are there to maintain a strong hold, as a way to provide protection or against the terrorists.
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Old 03-6-2005, 04:50 PM   #33
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I concur. If we were there to do anything else but keep their lives going smoothly during the election, what with the bombings and all, we would have done it by now. Overall, in no way is America trying to do anything but help, and we're doing a damned good job. As long as our troops (looks at t montana) are in there, Iraq is a much safer place. Oh, and T, I highly respect you as a U.S. soldier, and wish you the best in Iraq.
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Old 03-6-2005, 05:28 PM   #34
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what about nobody having any power whatsoever....(besides their own strength?)...would this result in anarchy or complete peace?

(anarchy because there would be no true leader)
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Old 03-6-2005, 06:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shetage
what about nobody having any power whatsoever....(besides their own strength?)...would this result in anarchy or complete peace?

(anarchy because there would be no true leader)
Why did you even bother asking a question if you were just going to answer it?
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Old 03-6-2005, 06:34 PM   #36
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would this result in anarchy or complete peace?
that is the question
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Old 03-7-2005, 02:00 PM   #37
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You missed the part where we were carrying on a topic.
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Old 03-7-2005, 04:42 PM   #38
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It's people like Shetage that make Critical Thinking into 'Special' Thinking. And yes, you did answer your own question. Now someone post a topic to carry on this thread before it gets killed, I'm really enjoying it. I honestly can't think of one, and would rather reply than start a topic.
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Old 03-7-2005, 05:49 PM   #39
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Gladly mytham.

"BAGHDAD, Iraq - As more people lose loved ones to the relentless violence, Iraqis are becoming increasingly angry at insurgents, even staging public demonstrations condemning militants.

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While it is impossible to precisely gauge public opinion, it is clear many Iraqis have grown tired of two years of insecurity, and some are directing their wrath at those behind the bombings and attacks.

“I demand that they be put in the zoo along with the other scavengers, because that is where they belong,” said Bassam Yassin, who lost his brother to an insurgent attack in Mosul. He spoke Wednesday after relatives of victims protested outside a police station in the northern city.

Iraq’s majority Shiite Arabs and ethnic Kurds have long criticized the largely Sunni Arab insurgency, portraying the militants as terrorists, loyalists of the Saddam Hussein regime and foreign fighters.

Public criticism from Sunnis
But the insurgents are now also being criticized publicly by prominent Sunnis, including opponents of the U.S. presence.

“The real resistance should only target the occupiers, and no normal person should consider dozens of dead people to be some kind of collateral damage while you are trying to kill somebody else,” cleric Ahmed Abdul-Ghafur told worshippers Friday at Um al-Qura, the main Sunni mosque in Baghdad. “Everybody should speak out against such inhumane acts.”

The growing anger was underlined this week in Hillah, a predominantly Shiite Muslim city south of Baghdad where a suicide car bombing on Monday killed 125 people — the deadliest single attack since Saddam’s ouster.

It touched a nerve in Hillah. More than 2,000 people chanting “No to terrorism!” demonstrated Tuesday outside the clinic where the bomber drove into a crowd of Iraqi police and army recruits, setting off an explosion that also killed civilians at a nearby market.

On Friday, hostility to the insurgency apparently boiled over into bloodshed in Wihda, 25 miles south of Baghdad. Townsmen attacked militants thought to be planning a raid on the town and killed seven, police Capt. Hamadi al-Zubeidy reported.

Anti-insurgency TV campaign
Anger against insurgents is being fed, in part, by a government television campaign. Last week, U.S.-financed Al-Iraqiya TV aired a series of reports showing men describing themselves as insurgents calmly talking about how they had beheaded dozens of people, kidnapped others for ransom and raped women and girls before killing them.

“People are realizing that the captured insurgents are not superheroes. They are timid people who kill for money and they have nothing to do with jihad,” said Karim Humadi, head of programming for Al-Iraqiya.

Insurgents have attacked Nineveh TV, Al-Iraqiya’s affiliate in Mosul, where most of the purported confessions were taped.

Last week, gunmen kidnapped one of the Mosul station’s anchorwomen, shot her four times in the head and dumped her near her home. The victim, Raiedah Mohammed Wageh Wazan, had called the insurgents “terrorists” on air.

The anger over deaths caused by insurgents does not always translate into acceptance of U.S. troops, who are still widely blamed for the chaos in Iraq. And many people support the insurgents, arguing they are fighting a just war to rid the country of U.S.-led troops who invaded in 2003.

Little acceptance of U.S. troops
“The Iraqi people are brave and won’t accept any foreigner on their soil. They will fight the occupation troops until force them to leave Iraq,” said Haitham Abdul Razak, who was a captain in Saddam’s army, which was disbanded by U.S. authorities.

Although American military deaths in Iraq passed 1,500 this week, they do not approach the toll among Iraqi civilians and their security forces. Bombings and other attacks killed more than 300 Iraqis just in February.

Groups like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s al-Qaida in Iraq have made no secret that they hope attacks aimed at Iraq’s Shiite majority will provoke Shiites into a sectarian war with Sunni Arabs, who make up the core of the insurgency.

They hope such a war will mobilize the Sunni Arab community, thought to comprise 15 percent to 20 percent of Iraq’s 26 million people but who dominated under Saddam’s regime.

Yet the insurgents’ tactics are increasingly denounced by prominent Sunnis like Abdul-Ghafur, a cleric with the influential Sunni Association of Muslim Scholars, believed to have ties to insurgents.

“This is not the right way to drive the occupation out ... killing Iraqis is not the way to liberation,” he told worshippers. “We call upon those who have power over these groups to stop massacring Iraqis.”"


Summary: Even the anti-American Iraqis hate the insurgency. I don't see how anyone can defed these vile terrorists who are also killing Muslims and call them "freedom fighters".
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Old 03-7-2005, 07:00 PM   #40
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Because, sadly, instead of actual education, most of the Iraqi people have been schooled to hate America. They have been raised to hate us, and they don't plan to change their minds any time soon, no matter what greatly inspiring show of the freedom and liberty we stand for that our troops illustrate. However, the new generation of Iraqis are being born into a new country, with a free government, and an end to the evil of tyranny.

This is America's goal, and we're not pulling out of Iraq until it is a reality. In fact, I'm sure many of our troops are reluctant to be in Iraq, but we aren't giving them a handicap, more of a jump-start. America is still sending supplies to fund their schooling and help those who need it. The Iraqi children are going to grow up in a land where they can be free and educated, offered jobs of great importance, and even become government officials to help their nation reach its upmost potential.

So, yes, there are people who think America is evil, and terrorists are wonderful. But this does not change the fact that we are going to give up helping the country of Iraq become untainted.
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