Pauline Marois and Parti Québécois win Québec Elections

[kommisar]

R.I.P. Québec

"As I've said during my campaign time and time again, my goal is that Québec will become a sovereign state"


Not that it'll ever happen, but it's upsetting that 30% of Québec agrees with her. Also lol attempted assassination during rally.



One person died as a result, one injured. One suspect in custody and to no surprise, it's an anglophone who is mad cuz bad. Very sad to see someone innocent dying as a result.

The main issue with Pauline Marois as Québec's PM is that she gives zero shits about the anglophone population. One of her promises was to completely segregate french and English services, including education. If your primary language is English and you want to attend a French school for céjep/university, you would no longer be able to, and vice-versa. It's also a law currently in effect in Québec that if you cannot speak French during a trial or any sort of prosecution, you have no rights.

In 1995, 49.1% of Québec supported sovereignty during the referendum. In 2008, only 20% supported separating Québec. With these recent elections and the constant hatred of Québecois towards Stephen Harper, I wouldn't be surprised if that number went up. Though it's highly unlikely that any huge movement would propel that number past 50% (at least I hope not).

[Hateandhatred]

Rofl I actually want le quebec libre.

Iirc



More seriously, Kommi has a point. While I support separation, I would vote "no" as things currently are. And I'm afraid that things are only going downfall with Pauline's ideals.

Also, there is not a chance of anything happening now. Pauline hardly has 55 seats, most of them from regions who don't do shit, she's gonna have a hard time building an efficient ministery, and liberals and caqists wont let her do anything. On top of that, she only "leads" for 18 months.

[kommisar]

Québec wanted to use Canada's money and resources after separating lol. The province wouldn't be self-sustainable. It would heavily rely on Canada who would in return most likely not provide such assistance.

This would also be massively problematic for Canada's Atlantic provinces. A huge gap like that wouldn't bode well.


but in a nutshell, Parti Québécois:

[Hateandhatred]

As it is now, no way. But get a massive tax raise, cuts in government jobs that are obsolete or useless, reform the health system, bonify locals when they start an enterprise (like what Obama is into), and dont let foreigners come just so they can get free healthcare and leave, and that would be a good start. Of course, Quebec would still have many economic relationships with Canada, but it could get more freedom of poilitics, economy, and other things that get in the way of Quebec's left winged ideals.

Tl;dr: turn Québec into a scandinavian country and there you go its possible.

[kommisar]

In theory, everyone says that in their political promises and does absolutely nothing to obtain those.


Though Québec has always had more "socialist" ideals since the 1960's and their ideology that post-secondary education should be affordable (and still complain about it being too expensive). The main issue is that there is a massive conflict of interest between Québec and the rest of the country. If the number of elected Conservative MPs in Québec doesn't tell enough, I don't know what would.

Converting Québec into a country would take a very long time and would be as economically unstable as Europe right now.


Though if I were to support the separation for a sec, I'd hope that Québec would have a very tight relationship with Canada and allow access between it and the rest of the country (and access to the Atlantic provinces) openly much like Europe does with its borders between countries. For Québec to prosper as a nation, it would need heavy implications with Canada and USA to be able to profit the nation. It certainly has the population to be a country, but it lacks experience as a sovereign state (although they like to act as if they are anyways). You would really need 70% of the people to agree with you for anything to go anywhere regarding political reform and going towards those "scandinavian" ideals.

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by kommisar

In theory, everyone says that in their political promises and does absolutely nothing to obtain those.


Though Québec has always had more "socialist" ideals since the 1960's and their ideology that post-secondary education should be affordable (and still complain about it being too expensive). The main issue is that there is a massive conflict of interest between Québec and the rest of the country. If the number of elected Conservative MPs in Québec doesn't tell enough, I don't know what would.

Converting Québec into a country would take a very long time and would be as economically unstable as Europe right now.


Though if I were to support the separation for a sec, I'd hope that Québec would have a very tight relationship with Canada and allow access between it and the rest of the country (and access to the Atlantic provinces) openly much like Europe does with its borders between countries. For Québec to prosper as a nation, it would need heavy implications with Canada and USA to be able to profit the nation. It certainly has the population to be a country, but it lacks experience as a sovereign state (although they like to act as if they are anyways). You would really need 70% of the people to agree with you for anything to go anywhere regarding political reform and going towards those "scandinavian" ideals.

This so much.

[noname219]

I don't think Quebec will separate any time soon.
Does it need to change? Yes, absolutely. The election of another party proves that people want change in the government system (at least 70% - not counting the liberals). This was definitely a step for the better. I wouldn't imagine if the PLQ would have stay; that would have caused another "Printemps Érable".
But, at this point, Quebec is too afraid to separate from Canada. I think it is possible to make Quebec a sovereign nation but, beforehand, we need to repair the mistakes that were made by the Liberal Party. I hope the PQ will be able to change things for the better even if it's highly unlikely they will improve everything in only one mandate. If, only if Quebec seperates, we need to have a strong economy, that is independent from Canada and US, while keeping close relations with those two.

What I was hoping for, was a centre party. A party that can improve the social politics while keeping an eye on economy. A party that question itself if it's a good idea or not to separate, that want to improve what's already's in place instead of destroying and then rebuilding. Right now, it's always a battle of socialist/federalist and this just reinforce the difference of mentality between francophones, anglophones and minorities in Quebec. That's not a good thing since Quebec needs to regroup itself for a better future. People need to make compromises to advance.

their ideology that post-secondary education should be affordable (and still complain about it being too expensive)

The main problem behind the raise of fees, is the 75% of augmentation. That's one hell of a raise. Plus, the justification behind it the government gave to students is "they need to make their part". Sure, but can they ? The average revenue of students is far below the population in general (10,000$/year if my memory's still good). Sure, a student can rely on loans and grants, but they are too often insufficient. They can't cover up your basic needs such as appartment cost, groceries, etc. (only that costs me 5.460,96 $ this August (had to buy a freakin new Mac+Adobe suite because I didn't had the choice-graphic design program), and I can't rely on loans because of my parents)... But that's another story.

[Stage:]

«Le prix de deux seuls F-35 équivaut à la somme nécessaire pour instaurer la gratuité scolaire.»
2 F-35 = same price as free tuition. We don't even need F-35s in the first place. That's the only thing I have to say concerning the tuition fees issue. I'm glad it's over (for the moment lol)

Also, I want a QUEBEC LIBRE, but I'm not even thinking about it at the moment because the PQ only has 55 seats, it's just impossible. Obviously she's gonna mention it in her speech because it's something a lot of Québécois want. Another thing about people from Quebec is that they change their minds a lot, so you never know what can happen

ALSO, for the language issue, Quebec's only official language is French. If you wanna speak english, Canada is one the largest countries in the world where you can do this!! So if you're not satisfied, you're free to move to another province that reflects your ideals (and this wouldn't be a problem if you consider Quebec as a part of Canada, but that would be putting aside the obvious cultural differences).

Don't tell me Harper gives a **** about his french population also.

EDIT: Btw, Bill 101 isn't anti-anglophone, at all. read it

[kommisar]

well that's more or less a separatist mentality, since the country that quebec is a part of is, in fact, officially bilingual when facing the law.


I honestly don't want Quebec to separate entirely, but I'd like for the Canadian government to go a step further than calling it "a nation within a nation". If Canada could give Quebec more political and social independence this would help solve the massive conflict of interest within the rest of the country. Look at the United Kingdom: a country of countries. Most operate independently yet all more or less work within the same system. Or even far east Russia, Sicily, etc. that are given much political independence

The problem is mostly financial. Unifying the provinces for the Canadian Confederation was a uniquely financial strategy. Though Lower Canada/Quebec was more or less forced into it, even Newfoundland had a separatist mentality upon joining. In the 1950s, they really didn't give two ****s about joining the confederation but because of their poor economy due to fish drought, they had no choice.

I think the best solution for this is to give provinces more independence and to give assistance financially where applicable. The Atlantic provinces rely heavily on Ottawa to help fund things that we would otherwise be unable to provide for our people. Quebec/Alberta on the other hand have an abundance of riches compared to us and would be able to sustain themselves with much less help from the federal government.

Politics should stay out of cultural affairs, especially in Quebec where things can be a little touchy. But as I said, Canada shouldn't officially "separate" but rather divide into administrative regions while giving said provinces a sort of independence to call themselves a nation if they wish.



Also I don't care how much the tuition hike is, it's still significantly lower than the rest of the country. You guys have no idea how lucky you are. Cheapest university here is 6,000 per year.

[igotrhythm]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

As it is now, no way. But get a massive tax raise, cuts in government jobs that are obsolete or useless, reform the health system, bonify locals when they start an enterprise (like what Obama is into), and dont let foreigners come just so they can get free healthcare and leave, and that would be a good start. Of course, Quebec would still have many economic relationships with Canada, but it could get more freedom of poilitics, economy, and other things that get in the way of Quebec's left winged ideals.

Tl;dr: turn Québec into a scandinavian country and there you go its possible.

As an ignorant American, I think that if Québec really becomes independent, then that will have the same effect of pre-WWI Europe, where Germany's holdings completely cut Poland off from the waters east of the English Channel. Some kind of settlement would have to be reached that would either allow mainland Canada a straight shot through Québec to the Atlantic (as was the case with Europe, which sliced Germany in half to allow Poland access to the sea after the war), or increase the focus on the lock network through the Great Lakes as a shipping route.

This second decision in turn would have implications for cash being pumped into the border states to help with this effort, from Minnesota and Wisconsin to Michigan and Ohio, all the way down the line to Maine. Michigan in particular would watch this development with plenty of interest, as the liberation of Québec would result in two countries expressing interest in worked goods from the States. Of course, this would only cause that pig-head Matty Moroun to dig deeper into his misguided belief that we don't need a second bridge.

To be perfectly honest, Québec screaming their heads off for independence, from where I sit (SUBJECTIVEMANIAS ALERT), is like a whiny teenager that's not getting what they want from their parents and threatening to run away from home unless they get it...only this isn't likely to be a phase. Let's just hope there isn't another Irish Republican Army in the making here.

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by kommisar

Politics should stay out of cultural affairs, especially in Quebec where things can be a little touchy. But as I said, Canada shouldn't officially "separate" but rather divide into administrative regions while giving said provinces a sort of independence to call themselves a nation if they wish.

A big problem with that us that we are still gonna fall under the canadian constitution. I think it is clear Quebec is completely fed up with monarchy.

On the other hand, given Quebec's massively different ideals (in general of course, not like it is unanimous by any mean), it would be wayyyy healthier for both nations to be truly independant. And actually, in terms of economy, the big winners here are canadians. Quebec are currently one of your biggest charges right now, it's not like we bring any money to you.

Originally Posted by igotrhythm

Let's just hope there isn't another Irish Republican Army in the making here.

Google "front de libération du Québec", "FLQ" or "grande noirceur", and read the silice results. If you wanna read further more, look up for "pierre laporte".

[kommisar]

Québec and Ontario have 97% of Canada's meat and milk produce.


Québec is bringing tons of money into Canada are you nuts lmao


Half my blood is from Québec, I'd really hate to see shit go down violently regarding sovereignty. I think realistically, nothing will happen and people will simply vote for Liberals again when someone convincing is leader.

[Im Vince]

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by kommisar

Québec and Ontario have 97% of Canada's meat and milk produce.


Québec is bringing tons of money into Canada are you nuts lmao


Half my blood is from Québec, I'd really hate to see shit go down violently regarding sovereignty. I think realistically, nothing will happen and people will simply vote for Liberals again when someone convincing is leader.

Actually our debt as a nation compares to Japan which is still recovering from last year's bullshit and Iceland.

[kommisar]

well managing money is a completely different story. realistically there's enough exports to do decently, even more so Japan. Iceland is a prime example though because they have little exports and rely heavily on their motherland.



36 billion could've been used towards many projects and reforms

instead we waste it on fighter planes we don't need


that's just bad money management.

[noname219]

Originally Posted by kommisar

36 billion could've been used towards many projects and reforms

instead we waste it on fighter planes we don't need


that's just bad money management.

Oh yeah, we're not very good at managing expenses for artillery. Remember the old submarines we bought from England? It broke down pretty fast.

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by kommisar

well managing money is a completely different story. realistically there's enough exports to do decently, even more so Japan. Iceland is a prime example though because they have little exports and rely heavily on their motherland.



36 billion could've been used towards many projects and reforms

instead we waste it on fighter planes we don't need


that's just bad money management.

True. But even the stuff we need/want, there is still not enough income for it to happen, which make us a charge for the rest of canada. We can make some good money with milk, meat, energy, copper and iron, and we have the potential to get uranium and other stuff, but with how expensive the health system is, and how badly we manage everything from road construction to scholarship toll, we don't weight in the good side of the balance. Hence why I support a tax raise. Of course there is the potential to do something though, we have everything at hand. But for not it is not happening.

About that comment saying Quebec doesn't know How lucky it is with the school fees, well that only works if you look only in North America.

[Stage:]

I know this is gonna sound stupid, but it's not all about the money, we don't want money that comes out of oil sands, it's terrible. No gas exploitation affecting protected areas either.

About the comparison, it's not about who has less or more, it's about what we think is fundamental and should be free. I don't mind everyone, as a community, paying it in other already existing and obvious ways, I just don't want our money to be invested in over the top military expenses. (PS, we have a lot of good stuff in Quebec, and I'm not the kind of guy who wants a completely eco-friendly finance system, it doesn't make sense, the statements above are extremes, but they are existing)

What's a nation? ''A nation may refer to a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, or history. In this definition, a nation has no physical borders.'' I could never say I'm Canadian, it's not about being a whiny bitch, and this does not mean that I don't like Canadians, we have transfer students from Ontario and once they are here, they notice the difference, and luckily for them, most of us speak english. Or else they would be lost. (lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQR1zg0cTn0

[Cavernio]

You're canadian because you live in Canada. I'm canadian because I live in Canada. As much as you want to be bonded by language, culture and ethnicity, that's not how countries work a generation after they're made, and if Quebec became its own country, you'd be one of the lucky few in the history of the world who got to say 'I made my country, it was my choice'.