TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

[tiloco217]

wow you posted a lot in the time it took to formulate that thought. Was referencing post 474

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by tiloco217

@freezin seems like you've been in some shitty games recently but I've found that the simple answer tends to be the right one and in this situation the simple answer is t/t in the blind/haku interaction. They are probably my strongest reads and I'm going to treat them as innocent until proven guilty for a while. I'd go over why again but I feel my stance is pretty clear. Doesn't mean your line of play is particularly wrong or bad but I tend to play on instinct and emotion significantly more than logic.

how is arguing alignment indicative

[FreezinIce]

like if you can answer that one point satisfactorily i will concede but the short answer is you dont have to be townie to seek pointless conflict

[FreezinIce]

you dont have to be townie to have a semantical misunderstanding

your read is built on a bluff made of trash and its starting to shift dude.

[FreezinIce]

im not insulting you personally even if it seems that way, but you need to do more to convince me of the merit of that read.

failing that, it will be a constant source of friction and potential criticism from me because the idea of clearing someone d0 for an argument like that is laughable to me atm

[FreezinIce]

heres a read of both of them that has nothing to do with a pointless argument.

Haku is null but trending up. He has a solid grasp of where he wants to take the game and what he wants from the players, and i dont mind the direction hes taking it as of now. Despite MMLs raging i completely fail to see the usual amount of pedantic play from haku that deserves such a response, if anything i feel his approach is more measured than the past with only the barest hint of acceptable antagonism.

blind is a harder read. hes playing fast and loose, with goals and motivations that are not really clear to me as of now. compared to haku theres a lot less concrete information to work with, and he has the tendency to take things personally which makes it hard to divorce him from the situations he involves himself in to get a grasp of his play. In short, hes a work in progress (effectively null)

[tiloco217]

It's less them arguing and more how they argued.

Assume w/w:

Haku might have asked the question to blind that started the interaction but he would not have jumped all over it. Haku would have just thought that his partner fucked up but how does it help his wincon to call out his partner? I really doubt Haku would start the argument if they were partners

Assume w/t:

These worlds have a little more merit but I don't think either are likely.

Haku is most likely to be the wolf based on this interaction alone. I definitely think that if he felt that he had caught a town in a trap he would jump all over them. However, I think that Haku has been rather towny leading up to this interaction and town Haku would probably have the same reaction to mafia Haku here so I'm willing to keep the town read on Haku for it

Blind being mafia is hard for me to believe because of how real he felt in his posts. I think that if Blind was mafia he would have just egged Haku on instead of bewilderingly asking what Haku was trying to do. Sure he could also go the route of trying to calm Haku down and hoping that by solving the dispute Blind would get town points from Haku but in that situation Blind's reaction wouldn't have felt real and I very much believe it was.

Going through the scenarios I think that by far the most likely one is t/t because everything they did feels like it could easily come from a town and none of it seems likely to have been fabricated.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

popping in to say blind/haku feels t/t

[tiloco217]

Again a lot of that hinges on my own gut feelings but that's how I tend to read people. I also don't think that d0 is as useless as everyone in FFR seems to think it is. I don't know much about forum so maybe it's less useful here but in live I tend to get most of my hard town reads really early on and I stick with them until the end or they do something that really sticks out to me and I have a fairly good success rate (with town reads, mafia reads are a lot harder for me)

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by tiloco217

It's less them arguing and more how they argued.

Assume w/w:

Haku might have asked the question to blind that started the interaction but he would not have jumped all over it. Haku would have just thought that his partner fucked up but how does it help his wincon to call out his partner? I really doubt Haku would start the argument if they were partners

Assume w/t:

These worlds have a little more merit but I don't think either are likely.

Haku is most likely to be the wolf based on this interaction alone. I definitely think that if he felt that he had caught a town in a trap he would jump all over them. However, I think that Haku has been rather towny leading up to this interaction and town Haku would probably have the same reaction to mafia Haku here so I'm willing to keep the town read on Haku for it

Blind being mafia is hard for me to believe because of how real he felt in his posts. I think that if Blind was mafia he would have just egged Haku on instead of bewilderingly asking what Haku was trying to do. Sure he could also go the route of trying to calm Haku down and hoping that by solving the dispute Blind would get town points from Haku but in that situation Blind's reaction wouldn't have felt real and I very much believe it was.

Going through the scenarios I think that by far the most likely one is t/t because everything they did feels like it could easily come from a town and none of it seems likely to have been fabricated.

I just cannot see this as plausible. Or plausible enough to plant a flag in after one day. chalk it up to a difference of opinion, but ive experienced firsthand the ease at which wolves can have arguments and interactions that feel natural and townie. I'm not going to be caught underestimating them. And im not going to use PoE to paint myself into a world where only a few plausible lynch candidates exist on day 0 based on interactions that have as little to do with the game as is possible in my mind.

[FreezinIce]

i think your sheeping your reads from dabackpack after rereading the thread tilco

thoughts?

[tiloco217]

Don't really remember most of DBP's reads so I'd have to iso (did I use it right?) him to actually see if you're right but if you are it probably means he's town

[tiloco217]

The only thing I really remember repeating from him was the t/t thing but I feel like I explained myself enough and my interaction with them before he said that was enough for you to see it wasn't a sheep just a similar opinion

[FreezinIce]

im getting vibes from last game atm with the potential risk/reward of leaving inactives alive versus the economy of killing them off. TBH for the purpose of my thinking dropping slank doesnt matter. I know its considered poor form to attack people who've dropped slank for being inactive. Well, call me a 500lb fat guy and push me off the diving board because thats what im about to do.

There are 2 categories of players. Active and inactive

Inactives have less posts than the host:

Soundwave-
Lightknight924
mellonxcollie
roundbox
Cold Kitten

I would be interested to know how many wolves people think are among actives/inactives

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by tiloco217

Don't really remember most of DBP's reads so I'd have to iso (did I use it right?) him to actually see if you're right but if you are it probably means he's town

you think because you copied his reads that makes him town???

[tiloco217]

I'm probably going to go to bed soon but I'll stick around for like 15 more minutes if you have some more things you want to talk about atm

[tiloco217]

I think that because we have the same reads it means that he is also town. It means that he is in the same mindset as me and if said them before I did than it's even easier to get that read

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by tiloco217

The only thing I really remember repeating from him was the t/t thing but I feel like I explained myself enough and my interaction with them before he said that was enough for you to see it wasn't a sheep just a similar opinion

you called it "cute." thats the extent of your comments on it before dbp declared it t/t and you assented.

by itself sheeping reads is (whatever). sharing opinions with someone else isnt a crime, and 95% of the time it isnt wolfy. but when you assert that your thoughts are well developed and explained, then that invites me to look and see if that is actually the case.

your reasoning on the interaction being t/t is based solely on a false dichotomy you have of both players playstyles which cannot be substantiated by behavioral proofs or evidenced by actual examples. Which begs the question of how much experience you have playing with blind and haku and how much insight you have into their mannerisms

[FreezinIce]

i realize that asking for examples like i just did is unreasonable

if someone asked me that in your situation id probably just go "w.e go fuk yourself d00d"

so a simpler question is in order.

when you explained what you thought haku and blind would do when interacting with each other, do you honestly believe thats how it happened? Do you think they are incapable of having a natural sounding disagreement regardless of alignment?

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by tiloco217

I think that because we have the same reads it means that he is also town. It means that he is in the same mindset as me and if said them before I did than it's even easier to get that read

nice to know its easy to buy a townread from you just by agreeing with whatever your saying