TWG CLXIII: Allies and Adversaries - GAME THREAD

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Tps222

Not really happy about this decision but I'll respect it.

Gotta ask, was your OOTD with anyone in game?
Also, you said you were gonna read lito's post and get back with your thoughts (on massclaiming, I assume). You still planning on doing that?

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by lurker

okay never mind that got really gay really fast

yeah I thought so too no it didnt shut up go eat a dick nerd I'm adding this to my grudge list hope you choke on it scrub

[j-rodd123]

So looking at the wolf roles it wouldn't be easy for them to fuck with a massclaim? In theory i still like shadowolfes reasoning just feel like somethings being missed

[Xiz]

Afk

Class from 1-10pm no break

[meno_rocks123]

The main issue with a mass roleclaim is that wolves can use a combo of sabotage and regular wolfing to take out a valuable role N1 and another N4. Then, the issue is that we either let those roles die or the guardian protects them and renders them useless anyways with a roleblock. Either way, we take a hit to our most valuable role.

[Litodude]

@meno wrong read sabo power and rule 1a.

Also MML/anyone else familiar with allies/adversaries : is it normal pto ost who your ally was? Why do that?

[Litodude]

To post* sorry mobile

[Litodude]

Phantoms are off so any vote that currently exists is considered legitimate to full extent of analysis, excluding safety reasons

[ShadoWolfe]

Meno's right, actually. Sabotage wolf kind of throws a wrench into massclaiming.

Sabo wolf can change the allegiances of a target and then factional nightkill could be on that target's new ally/adversary.

[roundbox]

Just a warning that this will not be a good phase for me timing wise but the rest of the game should be ezpz

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Litodude

@meno wrong read sabo power and rule 1a.

Also MML/anyone else familiar with allies/adversaries : is it normal pto ost who your ally was? Why do that?

It was done in the last version of this game on nadota, but it's actually pretty pointless for town and can potentially be detrimental because it helps doublecross wolf establish patterns of playerchoice and makes it easier for them to guess.

Because alliegances are changed every night, last night's choices are mostly irrelevant at this point, so sharing them isn't the end of the world, but it doesn't provide any real info for town and does provide info to wolf, especially if doublecross wolf exists.

[meno_rocks123]

Originally Posted by Litodude

@meno wrong read sabo power and rule 1a.

Also MML/anyone else familiar with allies/adversaries : is it normal pto ost who your ally was? Why do that?

1x Sabotage Wolf - Replaces the Ally/Adversary of their target to players of their choosing and negates the target's next allegiance PM.

1a. Mafia kills are not on their target, but on their target's Ally.

4. Wolves must target humans.


Loophole: Sabo targets a human, wolf kill targets the same human. All they need is a living human (of which there are many).

[MixMasterLar]

I did it because I thought maybe we could determine who was targeted if we all did it. Of course I was rushed in writing it so that didnt come off. It also assumes we all allied with a differebt person

I think our allies need to be our top scum leans for maximum easy mode in us winning this set up btw

Brb recordinh Red Ninja for the. Channel

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Litodude

Phantoms are off so any vote that currently exists is considered legitimate to full extent of analysis, excluding safety reasons

Honestly any vote on d0 that's not EoD (and most of d0's EoD) are pretty much random and not helpful to think too deeply into it.

Like I have two votes on me before my first post in the game but trying to determine if that means anything for the people who made them is pointless because it's clearly a troll referring to past games.


Anyway I can't help but feel this game is ripe for exploiting. Still think if we can try and get two wolf candidates we can lynch one and all mass ally the other and really fuck over the reds. I understand Sabotage Wolf might be in the game but that's a pretty fast way to tell if he is (Assuming we pick a wolf to mass ally) and everyone can like random.org their adversary and still make the Doublecross Wolf their bitch.

Anything I'm missing in that plan?

[MixMasterLar]

*anything

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Anything I'm missing in that plan?

Yes. Rule 1b says that after one wolf dies, wolves can choose to kill either a target's "ally" or "adversary". If inD was wolf, then all of us coordinating the Ally pick would be pointless.
It's a shame, too. I actually liked your plan until I reread 1b.

[Vendetta21]

peeked litodude vanilla green last night

balance of probability says the vigi is dead, but it could be a wolf

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

peeked litodude vanilla green last night

balance of probability says the vigi is dead, but it could be a wolf

Hell of an entrance, V.
Why out so brazenly? If sabo wolf exists and you're telling the truth then we've just lost one of our strongest power rangers.

[Litodude]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

peeked litodude vanilla green last night

balance of probability says the vigi is dead, but it could be a wolf

Hahaha you mother fucker.


I was waiting for host to send me PM of the random d1 vanilla human check on my seer power, and I was able to get it a couple hours ago. Unfortunately I was on a date.

Here was what I was writing earlier today:

because of the randomness of the roles and their effects...wolves would not be able to risk claiming a role. thus, first mover advantage actually falls to a human PR coming out: because a lack of specificity in the roles that are implemeted, a wolf cannot openly claim a role specifically because they do not know which exists.

honestly speaking, mathematically, it wouldn't make sense to have 6 wolves if I was designing I game...i'd probably leave even 1 out. is that a safe asusmption to make? that assumption would mean that wolves know they cannot guess a role, because the alliance of X many wolves means there are also an unknown amount of human PRs. this means wolves cannot claim a role.

So, V. the statement you just made a couple things clear about my hypothesis:

1. you don't know how many PRs there are because you did not explicitly say what role you are trying to be: based on your statement of 'peeking' me, you /could/ be greenmaster, or the seer.

unfortunately you fucked up with that guess.

2. there are not 6 wolves. and a wolf might be dead

3. you took the risk but it didn't pay off


thought i didn't get to claim first-mover advantage and announcing i'm seer, i originally was going to write this:

coming out with being seer?? maybe

i am the seer.

approx 2-3 hours before end of day phase, if no other person claims seer, come out with your roles. it is ostensibly harder for wolves to fake every single role within the time constraint, and that works for our benefit

if there is a counter-seer claim, kill us both. but this will be unlikely because host constraint of random PRs also dictate that wolves have no idea if that peson is lying. a green could also fake a role but that would be fuckin dumb nd would confuse alliance plus green = inactive

so now with you incorrectly peeking my color, that begs the question on 3: why did you take a risk?

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

balance of probability says the vigi is dead, but it could be a wolf

ah. that's right. the only 2 other red flips are sabo and 2x cross. meaning either of the two strongest wolf PRs you have are gone. you /have/ to take the risk. because the risk is also mitigated if one of the wolves accidentally died, because 2b. is in effect. wolves are strong enough now to make the power move, right?


You're going the fuck down Alec.

[Litodude]

before i continue, i'd like to ask a couple questions of the players:

what is the advantages or disadvantages of stating publicly who the human i rando-flipped are?

because meno put out a good point of the sabo power, because it still may exist and the vigi might have been the one who died: knowing exactly who is human is a disadvantage that wolves could exploit.

BUT i also started looking into the adept guardian + jailkeeper roles: they could potentially keep the green player's allies/adversaries safe? please let me know, i haven't fully explored the pro/cons to it.


also, question two:

Originally Posted by Tokzic

Anyone who did not send in an allegiance PM has had their initial allegiances randomed.

i'm going to assume that this happened to a lot of players for host to explicit mention this at the time, just the same as host mentioned OOTD talking illegal: because it was happening and people were unaware.

my question is...is it better to keep those continuously randomized for now instead of individually picking your own allegiances? let's get some brain power in here please