Ideal Stream patterns

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

I'm very simply put, lost in how to do streams that don't flow like complete ass. Anyone who has played {Midnight} on thirdstyle, or Extratone Pirates on the Dragon's Fury Engine, knows exactly what I am talking about.

Instead of rambling with numbers and stuff, I suppose it'd be easiest to show you examples of streams I've come up with, that I know are extremely bad to hit pattern wise.

The goal of this first stream was to keep it PRed, but doing so makes it total ass, so I tried to semiPRed and this is the result

This is from Transparent World @220 BPM



This is a speedcore chart where the stream is randomized
And this is from my Extratone Pirates @250bpm



If these aren't enough examples, I can possibly give one or two more when I get home as I don't have all my charts on my laptop, which I am currently on.

Now, it's harder to notice from looking, but take my word for it, that these patterns are either really obnoxious to hit, or complete luck to not mess up.

So in short, does any one have any idealistic stream pattern(s)? A pattern that flows wonderfully regardless of PR is completely acceptable. This is not a pattern I intend to copy note for note, but something I'd like to use sort of as a base line for testing the flow of patterns I step in the future.

Any help is appreciated very much.

[moches]

a few guidelines:
1. find a balance between cramped and spaced. some people make patterns that are impossible to hit because they contain jacks/repeated notes over and over again, while other people make random ass patterns that are a pain in the butthole to hit, much less hit accurately. personally, what I like to do is "ease" transitions as such.

say you're patterning a stream that goes from left to right. what you could do is something like this...

x000
0x00
x000
00x0
0x00
00x0
0x00
000x
00x0
000x

see how I'm moving one note at a time? you want to give your players a connecting point to transition to different patterns. ideally, this means lots of 8th minijacks in your streams.

[14] patterns always feel more open than [23] patterns do.

try not to have [12]/[34] trills

don't abuse the staircase pattern, unless you can either put a fun twist on it (ie messing with mines, leaving gaps and switching up the steps) or the melody is actually doing that

reserve longer jack patterns (ie 12131214) for melodies that deserve them.

jack theory can be good when used sparingly (NEVER use in faster streams, though). look for tension points where minijacks would flow well.

[Tidus810]

I'm kinda glad you made this thread, I was in a similar predicament not too long ago. I'm sure someone else will have more detailed ideas, but I tend to enjoy stream that has continuity with occasional breaks. Easy examples are 123414321 and 1232143234. I find that these kind of patterns are easy to read and much easier to hit than other patterns at any given bpm, but the breaks help with reading etc.
Hope that helps a little.

[Grimer]

260bpm and lower you pretty much can't make bad stream patterns, though if you're in doubt about something it's probably going to be a running man type pattern. 260-300 You might want to cut down on the amount of 1 handed thrill patterns, play around with it until you think it flows well. When you start to get in the bpm range of 290-340 I find it's best to avoid awkward 1 handed patterns throughout the stream (for example Disregard has some really weird things going on in it).

Overall the choice of patterns you use in streams should take into consideration what bpm the file is. PR can be really good and fun up to a certain bpm, but after a certain point it just doesn't matter.

Sicky Liquid

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by Grimer

260bpm and lower you pretty much can't make bad stream patterns, though if you're in doubt about something it's probably going to be a running man type pattern.

I hope you realize that your advice is basically useless unless someone is stepping files intended for high-level players (and at that point patterns don't matter much anyway since apparently you can dump long 32nd walls and stuff in and everyone is okay with it).

[Grimer]

Originally Posted by qqwref

I hope you realize that your advice is basically useless unless someone is stepping files intended for high-level players (and at that point patterns don't matter much anyway since apparently you can dump long 32nd walls and stuff in and everyone is okay with it).

I hope you realize my advice is in fact directed at high-level stream pattern choice. (mostly)
Like I said you can use pitch relevancy at lower bpms and it will usually work out fine. If you aren't using PR at a lower bpm just fiddle with it until you have a stream that's fun. It's really basic stuff, I believe if anyone puts enough time into their file they can have something they're proud of.

Sticky Liquid

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by Grimer

I hope you realize my advice is in fact directed at high-level stream pattern choice. (mostly)

Sure, but basically if your approach to 200-250 bpm stream is "anything is okay" then you are just not going to make good charts of the difficulties that most active players play.

I don't think anyone would disagree when I say that the difficulty of a file is a combination of the bpm and how tough the patterns are. If 16th stream is the focus of your file, then whether it's at 150 or 220 or 300 bpm, it's important to make it flow well. Sure, the kind of person who AAAs 300 bpm stream files isn't going to care about 220 bpm stream files, but they aren't the intended audience anyway. If you are making a 220bpm file and ignore the fact that a lot of people still have trouble with icky 220bpm stream patterns, you're going to end up with a chart that is only fun to the people who will AAA it anyway, and really unpleasant to the people who will be playing that chart the most.


@Middie: Honestly, there is a lot of disagreement over this, because some people like certain patterns and some like others. For instance hi19 tends to make really rolly streams that he enjoys, and I also know other people who hate playing that kind of pattern. I've heard samurai is really good with patterns, so you could look at his charts for some pointers. In general I think it's fair to say that you should generally avoid one-handed minitrills longer than 3-4 notes, and try not to have any kind of longer anchorjacks, but other than that there's a lot of variation available in how you make the stream feel. I wouldn't want there to be One Way to do it because then all the files would look the same. As long as you avoid the really bad stuff, it's nice to have the variety of different styles.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Italicized is QQ:

Sure, but basically if your approach to 200-250 bpm stream is "anything is okay" then you are just not going to make good charts of the difficulties that most active players play.

I agree. If you notice both screen shots I posted are above the 200 bpm mark. And let me tell you something, those patterns give me nightmares. Transparent has been outright rejected from a pack because of that intro pattern I posted.

I don't think anyone would disagree when I say that the difficulty of a file is a combination of the bpm and how tough the patterns are. If 16th stream is the focus of your file, then whether it's at 150 or 220 or 300 bpm, it's important to make it flow well. Sure, the kind of person who AAAs 300 bpm stream files isn't going to care about 220 bpm stream files, but they aren't the intended audience anyway. If you are making a 220bpm file and ignore the fact that a lot of people still have trouble with icky 220bpm stream patterns, you're going to end up with a chart that is only fun to the people who will AAA it anyway, and really unpleasant to the people who will be playing that chart the most.

Pretty much this. And even then you keep in mind that those who can AAA it simply could then take it upon themselves to play it faster via rates. So it still matters to a degree.

@Middie: Honestly, there is a lot of disagreement over this, because some people like certain patterns and some like others. For instance hi19 tends to make really rolly streams that he enjoys, and I also know other people who hate playing that kind of pattern. I've heard samurai is really good with patterns, so you could look at his charts for some pointers. In general I think it's fair to say that you should generally avoid one-handed minitrills longer than 3-4 notes, and try not to have any kind of longer anchorjacks, but other than that there's a lot of variation available in how you make the stream feel. I wouldn't want there to be One Way to do it because then all the files would look the same. As long as you avoid the really bad stuff, it's nice to have the variety of different styles.

My hope was not to come up with "one way to stream them all" (I went there) I just needed a fresh outlook on it. I learned that anchor jack one the hard way though...



For those who don't remember that evil stupid horse shit.

[i love you]

I basically do something similar to moches except I am more cautious with transitioning from one pattern to the next so I end up playtesting all of my Simfiles lots of times until it gets to the point where almost every transition is smooth and the patterns match the music as semi-close as possible. I also take into consideration of the genre and the bpm of each file as well.

What I normally do now is first start out with random index stream.

Then I change it up so that it is semi-PR with the music.

Then I playtest to check for awkward transitioning and adjust accordingly.

And finally, I move on to the next sections and apply the same concept until I finish the file.

Then I wait a day or two and come back to the file and I usually notice a few things that I have missed and adjust them accordingly.

In the end, you have one nice and fun-looking file.

[Razor]

[MarioNintendo]

Originally Posted by Razor

Sexy

[Razor]

Originally Posted by MarioNintendo

Sexy

hey thanks babe

[SKG_Scintill]

...x | ...x | x... | ...x
..x. | ..x. | ..x. | ..x.
.x.. | x... | .x.. | .x..
x... | .x.. | ...x | ...x
..x. | ..x. | ..x. | ..x.
...x | ...x | ...x | x...
.x.. | .x.. | .x.. | ...x
...x | x... | ..x. | .x..
..x. | ..x. | x... | x...
x... | .x.. | .x.. | ..x.
.x.. | ...x | x... | .x..
..x. | ..x. | ..x. | x...
...x | x... | .x.. | ...x
.x.. | .x.. | ...x | .x..
x... | ..x. | ..x. | ..x.
..x. | ...x | ...x | x...
x... | .x.. | .x.. | ..x.
.x.. | x... | ..x. | .x..

[SKG_Scintill]

For stream, play La Verdine (olol dat ego)

[Charlo]

I just make index/pad-friendly streams and try to minimize the amount of same-hand arrows in succession. In my mind the streams are either right-arrow-based (no right arrows appear as sixteenth notes for the duration of the stream) or left-arrow-based (the opposite). Jumpstream throws this out the window.

I suppose the ideal stream (for me) would be one where the left and right hands alternate exactly. That would limit the amount of possible patterns by a lot.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

I honestly see no different between an index friendly stream and a spread stream, to me there really isn't one.

And I played Index for quite a while.

[Dynam0]

LONG POST BUT WORTH THE READ

Streams really should be broken down into each hand and what's expected of them...concerted actions between both hands isn't the difficult part (except in special cases), quite often it's what type of stress you place on a certain hand. My approach to streams follows a --for lack of a better term-- 'inside' and 'outside' pattern theory.

The various techniques you use on one hand are below (a lot of these will overlap when you consider what the other hand does but lets focus on the left hand):
I'm not using 16th jacks since that technically wouldn't be a pure stream anymore.



Outside-biased Patterns

Repeated 8th notes on the outer finger: This implies that you are doing a trill or running man where the outer finger is anchoring 8ths notes only. (ex. 13131314141414 or 1314131314 etc.)

-These patterns are quite friendly at most bpms although they are much more tiring. Use them for shorter durations at any bpm

Two-note gallops starting on the outer finger: 12341234 rolls for example or 12431243 (spins). Combinations of the two apply as well, Razor used a lot of these in his sexy stream and for good reason. These are probably your most smooth type of patterns, even for transitions. Remember these are outside-biased gallops which I find much easier. Any good smooth stream, even at high bpms will have these placed strategically throughout it.

Spaced mini-trills that start on the outer finger: Disregard has a lot of smaller patterns like this, another really good example is Vertex Beta but the spacing is much closer. (ex. 12142341214323121) Note how the outer finger (1) is emphasizing the 4th/8th notes here.


-Patterns are friendly if spacing is sufficient and bpm is not insanely high. Eruption uses these patterns in the beginning and they can be tedious since you must alternate between these and repeated 8ths with the outside finger. A very smooth example of this is in Aperson's Tranzport where he uses 121434121434 for a couple 24th bursts. I would call that special case an inverted staircase, sadly not many people use them.

Repeated mini-trills that start on the outer-finger: Straightforward, you'll be doing an outer-finger running man pattern. (12131214121312131214 etc.) #est has running men like this and so does Gaussian Mist (although it has all kinds of other running men as well).

-These patterns are quite difficult at any bpms exceeding 250 for most players. Use sparingly and for short durations.

4-note trills that start on the outer finger: Patterns like 1212 and 4343 etc. Blur has these, as does Shind Bad.

-Higher spacing of these patterns will make them more smooth, however it is not required!

-These patterns when repeated are actually easier than outer-finger running men at higher bpms since in order to start the pattern on the outside finger again, it must be separated by two 16th notes instead of one.

5-note trills and higher starting on the outside finger: Self-explanatory, you're decreasing the spacing of trill motions until the point of making that pattern repeating. Any one-handed trills longer than 5 notes become much more difficult at high bpms so use them sparingly.


Inside-biased Patterns

Every pattern listed above is inverted in these cases. Just start all of the patterns above with the inner finger (2 or 3) instead. I won't go over these, just the one special case.

Staircases (34321234321) are an example of spaced mini-trills using the inside finger to start. As you can probably tell, these are quite friendly even at super high bpm...probably because you don't have to be good at reading to understand a staircase. They transition quite well with other pattern-types too.



Patterns with no finger bias: The only possible patterns here are alternating 8th notes on either hand (so 1324142313241423 or 4231413242314132 etc.)

These patterns are by far the most manageable, even at ridiculous bpms (400+) for obvious reasons. I recommend using them for lower or high range bpms. Medium-high speeds like 250-280bpm make these patterns a little more awkward to hit since the speeds are in between wrist-jacks and super-slow one handed trills).



Those are the individual tools. My experience has been that outside-biased patterns are much more fluid. Perhaps because I find emphasizing with my middle fingers a lot easier. I also find 12 and 43 gallops a lot easier than 21 and 34, especially in transitions. Also, alternating between outside-biased and inside-biased patterns can make the stream really choppy in most situations. Razor's example alternates between both types but he almost exclusively uses gallops which are not physically demanding. However, at really high bpm (340+) even this pattern becomes awkward (for example the streams in The Goddamn Power Rangers use this type of form and they are awkward as hell to keep time to). For really high bpm, stick to one of the finger-biases imo. Another thing you'll want to do is spread the density between both hands.

[Gundam-Dude]

my general rule of thumb is try to keep one handed trill patterns to a minimum and always be conscious of jack patterns, especially semi-hidden ones

for example, my fxxin desire is completely focused on the 16th jack on the up arrow—semi-hidden amidst all the 4th and 8th notes. personally, I'd spread it out as evenly as possible for a better flow, even if it means breaking some PR

also I don't know if anyone else has noticed but I personally keep a lot of my 16th note layering towards the center [2] and [3]. that's just my personal preference for how I step, lol

[NeoMasterPie]

first of all, play your own files and change stuff that feels awkward. if it feels awkward and unfun for you then chances are it does for everyone else.

not everything has to revolve around pitch relevancy, either - if your patterns are shit then people will be too focused on that to notice that the pitch relevancy is great

[kommisar]

think of your index fingers as your feet.


if it's awkward, then it's not indexable