attn elitists

[moches]

Originally Posted by Untimely Friction

I'll honestly admit in my 6 years here I've wanted to, and have stepped several files, but decided not to upload them, and scrapped them, expecting to simply be laughed as for as moches said not popping out of the ~Magical Stepmania Vagina~.

Stuff like QQwref said would really dissuade me from wanting to make files in fear that comments like that would be shot at me for even trying. I know I should be able to accept criticism, and as should we all but when it comes from someone with a pretty colored name any new user attempting a project as could have been entirely possible with that dump pack might just pack their bags and leave.

I don't actually see many people helping new steppers and in a one on one stance guiding them what kinds of things work and don't. THey may in PM and if so thats private for a reason, but the community concensus is that this elitism exists and it's detrimental to the revival and re-growing of the community.

So cut the shit brahs.

there was actually an attempt to connect veterans with up-and-coming stepartists (known as Stepmania University lmao). unfortunately, FFR hit a year-long hiatus right when it was taking off so it never happened.

I suspect your experience may be far more common than you expect, but I would encourage you to put your stuff out there. there are a lot of people here who would be more than willing to give you feedback...I actually think the environment has gotten much better for newcomers than it was at the peak of our elitist period.

and in any case, your experience is precisely why I will never buy into elitism, at least not as the driving force of the community. too many people get lost.

[AlexDest]

you can never step another if you know not how to step yourself

[FFR4EVA_00]

but like
qqwref isn't even good at anything
why are you guys so worried about him

[kommisar]

gotta take criticism from people who have made files that a lot of people like to be able to have a sense of how to make files yourself.


don't be QED and say your files are perfect when nobody likes them either.


that's not to say there aren't different way to make simfiles and you should be strictly limited to what people tell you, but veterans can give you guidelines that will help you structure a file properly.

[HST]

cheet

[V-Ormix]

[iCeCuBEz v2]

stepmania: serious business

[stargroup100]

sigh goddammit do I actually have to explain myself

fuck it I'm too lazy let's have you guys do it for me

part of what I meant was this:

Originally Posted by kommisar

don't be QED and say your files are perfect when nobody likes them either.

also I agree with this:

Originally Posted by kommisar

We've discussed the reasons why elitism can lead a community to achieve great things. The purpose of having experienced people judge and criticize files is exactly because they are more experienced and can show others guidelines on how to step properly.

but in response to that is this:

Originally Posted by ScylaX

People will may not play a pack of bad files but the community still has a good idea of what a good file is and what isn't. It's not like "making actually good files" was a practice that people should be afraid for it to disappear one day.

The community passed through eras of elitism and inactivity because nothing really encouraged simfile making ; now that things are somehow improving, it's just not the time to bitch about the quality of a pack when an initiative is taken.

tl;dr let's focus on what's positive instead of indefinitely create hostilities
I mean it's a simple as that.

ps scylax you win the thread have all of my gooey love nuggets

scylax 2013

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by moches

I was 13 years old when I made FFR Community Pack, and given the ridiculous hostility and shitbagging I got from most of the regulars around the community at the time, that's probably the only reason I managed to finish it. was it good? not really (though certainly not terrible either). was it well-received? hell no. did completing the project make me and others who may have been participating in a community project for the first time? absolutely. my point is that not everybody pops out of the ~magical Stepmania vagina~ with a fully formed concept of what quality is. but as veterans, people who have likely been through the same shit before rising to positions of respect, we've got to let them try, damn it.

not all of this has to do with this specific instance, of course, but I feel that getting away from an overarching atmosphere in the Stepmania community where it's a small circle of people running the show with newcomers just standing at the sidelines because they can't get anything off the ground could be good. maybe not every pack that comes out of this is going to be as great as everything that came out of the so-called Golden Age. but even my 12-year-old dumb self got somewhere eventually. I think it's fair to give others a shot. just my two cents.

moches, I love you <3

[kommisar]

the problem with elitism during 2007-2009 is that the elite didn't share any information on how to step files and kept everything within their circlejerk of stepmans aka dark chancellas.


then nobody was makin files and people were leaving


then the elite started teaching people how to step files


now there are tons of excellent simfile artists. I don't think things are too bad right now.

[stargroup100]

I don't know if any of you noticed, but notecharting history in terms of its development is very much parallel to that of western music

"renaissance" period - in music, this is when people start to experiment with very basic ideas such as harmony and polyphony. music was really simple, consisting of only a couple of melody lines at most. in charting this like back in the days of hyrogashi fuckin notepad sim edit fuckin fuck

"baroque" period - here, music starts to make sense. some basic rules were established that allowed it to be very structured. here, we introduce basic concepts of proper sync and layering. first few ffr charts that were on sync fall in this category

"classical" period - some of the stuff in the baroque period was too complex, so classical composers made catchy tunes that would appeal more to the public. this is when people first started to think about what patterns would be the most fun, and very simple, technical charts were made. this is the era of rebirth and hi19. though kil and a couple others were already doing super insane stuff well beyond this time, which we consider the "classics"

"romantic" period - music starts to get complex. lots of chords and fancy rhythms, some pieces highly expressive, others highly technical. here is where we get our really really hard charts that are still actually legitimate. such as glove's files, reach's files, pretty much the era of odi

"modern" period - music starts to challenge the fundamentals. people start to try lots of crazy stuff to just try it and break away from standard procedures. music is pushed to its extremes, ranging anywhere from highly dissonant sounds, neo-classical, or even silence. this is equivalent to kil's newer stuff, my newer stuff, aaand I stopped following stepmania around this time

"postmodern" period - this is where we are now. most everything has already been done. people understand what makes a good chart, the same way how people nowadays understand what good music is. everyone is making music now, combining all sorts of techniques and fusions of styles from all over the world. people started to break away from the modernist music because it sounded to snobby and elitist. now we just need to focus on making fun charts with what we know. if some people want to continue pushing the limits and boundaries on charting, sure, let them do it. but for those who don't care about critical acclaim, let them do what they want, and you'll have a world chock full of fun music to listen to-er I mean charts to play

[FFR4EVA_00]

Originally Posted by kommisar

now there are tons of excellent simfile artists. I don't think things are too bad right now.

i disagree
there are hardly that many simfile artists, and just about every single one doesn't even know the basics
you fucking make fun of people who think that files need to be on sync

[dragon890x]

Originally Posted by FFR4EVA_00

there are hardly that many simfile artists

Incorrect.

Originally Posted by FFR4EVA_00

and just about every single one doesn't even know the basics

Maybe, I have seen a lot of "I need my username to be Orange" syndrome going around.

[Charu]

I kind of like the challenge of making something that would make even veteran steppers go. "Oh... interesting." Maybe it's because I'm laid back or just used to it, but I really don't mind the harsh critics and blunt responses.

Welcome to what it's like in the real world when you make things for others.

[stargroup100]

drove through ghosts to get here

modernism

[Roar176]

u guyZ da suk

it's like Date Pu sais it's f*ucking subjectivemanias

nobody guided me I learned sh*ite from a few lines written at ODI wiki that nobody cared about
Then I do what I think is g00de and that's how everybody should do
Just do w/e u think is g00de for your file
When u improve at stepping is when u learn how to make a better file for yourself
It's when you're like I don't like that part ... I think it's better if I turn it like that
If u wanna improve your files then YOU are the one who can improve them
No need to take f*ucking classes for that

There's no secrets. theories are bullsh*ite even the layering/pitchrevealancy things that I find fundamental are bullsh*ite because at the end of the day NVLM_ZK gave no sh*ite about it and people plays Red Sign more than all my files combined

Packs are only projects that aims for something
Submitting a NVLM_ZKish file to Xoon 6 would be insta reject because it's like getting a rock song into a hardcore techno album
But does that mean your file f*ucking suck ?? n0pe
well maybe xdddddd

So if your sh*ite gets rejected from X6 it's because Kommisar doesn't like it (we all know other judges don't matter jajajaja)

If u wanna get a file into X6 then u gotta make a file that would fit the pack aka a hardcore techno song into a hardcore techno album
Just think the other way around if u take that thing ... staring at my sh*iteship and u give that to midare for the newest midare megapack
He'll say f*uck no cuz that's godd*amn techno song into a pop album
And is staring at my sh*iteship a bad file ?? n0pe
well maybe xdddddd

And if u wanna get a file into midare megapacks then it's the same sh*ite
u gotta make a file that fits it's the same thing everywhere

Kommisar wanna guide peepZ cuz he's just the leader of da sheepZ but it's up to u to be a sheep
midare didn't give a sh*ite about the leader of da sheepZ and he made several successful packs
cetaka/minion didn't give a sh*ite about the leader of da sheepZ and they made minitaka pack
ferrari didn't give a sh*ite about the leader of da sheepZ and he made Utmost excellence minipacks
I gave no sh*ite and I made Sirius pack ... o wait that sh*ite has 100 downloads xddddddddddddd yO get it folks ):

If you're the type of guy who's into noisecore and don't expect peepZ to like your sh*ite (cuz well there's not so many peepol into that sh*ite lOl)
Same works for simfiles. If u want to make a file and receive positive feedback then be a sheep and make files that sheep leader will like
But if what is g00de for u is whatever Kommisar likes then Yes be a godd*amn sheep and take notes
I'm not saying to do exactly or the opposite of what Kommisar wants
I say do what YOU think is g00de
And if YOU think it's bad then improve your file
Because if it's g00de for u then it's g00de godd*amnit

And elitist peeps are just guyz who like mines into their files but u and me knows that we can make g00de files without mines

They're like I don't like your file cuz it has no mines - moches numero unooooooooooooooo
But that's dAmbE as sh*ite it's like saying yO I don't like yO chiptunes cuz no gabba bass lOl own3d b*itch

If u plan to review a file then don't call it bad
explain why u dislike it and maybe the one who made will agree with u and improve his stepping style for himself
if you're like i love gabba then u can't blame the i love chiptunes guy for having different tastes if he doesn't agree with your suggestions that doesn't make him a damBe guy and if u don't like that he disagreed and u are the dAmbe guy

but do u see the thing

The thing is:
Subjectivemaniase

It's the same sh*ite EVERYWHERE

It's Easay to understand

tl;dr Do what YOU think is G00DE and don't tell people that their sh*ite is BAD
"g00de" judge don't necessarily make all the g00de packs
qqwref is just st00pide
elitism is st00pide
gundame d00de should make a bible about subjectivef*uckingmaniase
ppace
I'm off driving truckZ !!

[Ziergdsx18]

gay

[kommisar]

Originally Posted by stargroup100

I don't know if any of you noticed, but notecharting history in terms of its development is very much parallel to that of western music

"renaissance" period - in music, this is when people start to experiment with very basic ideas such as harmony and polyphony. music was really simple, consisting of only a couple of melody lines at most. in charting this like back in the days of hyrogashi fuckin notepad sim edit fuckin fuck

"baroque" period - here, music starts to make sense. some basic rules were established that allowed it to be very structured. here, we introduce basic concepts of proper sync and layering. first few ffr charts that were on sync fall in this category

"classical" period - some of the stuff in the baroque period was too complex, so classical composers made catchy tunes that would appeal more to the public. this is when people first started to think about what patterns would be the most fun, and very simple, technical charts were made. this is the era of rebirth and hi19. though kil and a couple others were already doing super insane stuff well beyond this time, which we consider the "classics"

"romantic" period - music starts to get complex. lots of chords and fancy rhythms, some pieces highly expressive, others highly technical. here is where we get our really really hard charts that are still actually legitimate. such as glove's files, reach's files, pretty much the era of odi

"modern" period - music starts to challenge the fundamentals. people start to try lots of crazy stuff to just try it and break away from standard procedures. music is pushed to its extremes, ranging anywhere from highly dissonant sounds, neo-classical, or even silence. this is equivalent to kil's newer stuff, my newer stuff, aaand I stopped following stepmania around this time

"postmodern" period - this is where we are now. most everything has already been done. people understand what makes a good chart, the same way how people nowadays understand what good music is. everyone is making music now, combining all sorts of techniques and fusions of styles from all over the world. people started to break away from the modernist music because it sounded to snobby and elitist. now we just need to focus on making fun charts with what we know. if some people want to continue pushing the limits and boundaries on charting, sure, let them do it. but for those who don't care about critical acclaim, let them do what they want, and you'll have a world chock full of fun music to listen to-er I mean charts to play

no1 gives a shit

[Gundam-Dude]

the irony of this thread

[ScylaX]

thread of iron