Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham, live debate, going on now

[Reincarnate]

It's actually a kind of insult to God when you think about it.

If God made a universe that is indistinguishable from one that didn't need him to create it in the first place... then what good is God for?

God may as well be a trickless magician:

[stargroup100]

I guess I should elaborate.

Everything we discuss here about the relationship between what we observe and the actual reality of the world around us, the nature of science, the nature of knowledge, etc. falls in the subject of philosophy (or something like that, maybe I'm not being technical).

What we discuss here is worthy of discussion as philosophy. Creationism has nothing to do with it. Discussing the psychology behind why people believe in creationism and how it affects a person is fine. Discussing why creationism is wrong, however, is as meaningful as discussing why it's impossible for a human being to consume a full-sized elephant in under 12 seconds.

[Reincarnate]

I think you may be referring to epistemology (the study of knowledge / what it means for something to be knowable / true / a belief / justified / etc).

[korny]

Originally Posted by qqwref

it could actually be the Mormon God that did it

Just for clarification purposes, the mormon god is the same god as they are just another Christian denomination like the Methodists, baptists and Catholics.

[Snowcrafta]

Catholic #1

[stargroup100]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

I think you may be referring to epistemology (the study of knowledge / what it means for something to be knowable / true / a belief / justified / etc).

One of the branches of philosophy associated with this topic, yes, but not the only one.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by korny

Just for clarification purposes, the mormon god is the same god as they are just another Christian denomination like the Methodists, baptists and Catholics.

OK, but he does have different rules he wants people to follow, and a different set of holy books, right? Like, you could be considered a good person according to "mainstream" Christianity, but not according to the Mormons, or vice versa.

[choof]

okay I finally watched this

this was really underwhelming, bill nye seemed somewhat unprepared and ken ham's head is so far up his own ass it's unbelievable

[adlp]

Originally Posted by qqwref

OK, but he does have different rules he wants people to follow, and a different set of holy books, right? Like, you could be considered a good person according to "mainstream" Christianity, but not according to the Mormons, or vice versa.

we use the KJV of the Bible that most mainstream Christians use

we use the BoM as another testament of Jesus Christ that goes hand in hand with the Bible

we don't believe God judges people unfairly and takes all things into account. our doctrine outlines that heaven is in tiers, or degrees of glory, and that most of mankind will belong in one of those tiers of heaven.

[qqwref]

Oh, you're Mormon? That's cool though, thanks for the info I guess it was a bad example.

[Reincarnate]

What's Ham's reputation/standing in religious communities?

[adlp]

no idea but I think creationism is dumb in it's own right

[funmonkey54]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

What's Ham's reputation/standing in religious communities?

As a student in a Holiness Movement influenced School of Theology and Ministry, I can honestly tell you that 0/38 professors are young-earth creationists here. This is a conservative school. So yeah, there's that.

His view doesn't represent educated Christian thought's general concept of creationism. The Creation Museum is a joke and most of what he argued was really far off base.

[stargroup100]

Originally Posted by adlp

no idea but I think creationism is dumb in it's own right

See this is what I'm talking about.

Sorry for using you/your post as an example. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what this guy said. He's stating an opinion and clearly has his head on straight.

BUT WHO DOESNT THINK CREATIONISM IS DUMB

Pointless discussion. If this thread was titled "Philosophy of Science" or "Delusional Disorder" or "Epistemology" or "The Psychological Effects of Religion" or something similar, we could be having a brilliant thread going on here, without any bullshit. Instead, we have sparse points that give insight sprinkled in between a bunch of posts that state the obvious.

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by stargroup100

BUT WHO DOESNT THINK CREATIONISM IS DUMB

People who don't understand science, or people who think there exists a dichotomy between it and their faith. I think those people largely exist in fundamentalist circles, but they can be found anywhere.

--Guido

[stargroup100]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

People who don't understand science, or people who think there exists a dichotomy between it and their faith. I think those people largely exist in fundamentalist circles, but they can be found anywhere.

Well yeah, but the idea is that almost anyone that has their head on straight enough to contribute to meaningful discussion here will understand the common sense that creationism is a load of crap.

The point I was trying to make is that this topic of creationism keeps leading the discussion nowhere meaningful. Therefore, that statement I made refers only to the people who are relevant in that context. Again, what you said was perfectly valid and correct, but obvious. I didn't want to reiterate what everyone knew and it would sound verbose if I'm trying to be sarcastic. Once again, discussion goes nowhere when creationism is involved.

[Reincarnate]

A lot of people believe in some kind of creationism, at least here in the States

[SKG_Scintill]

[devonin]

Originally Posted by stargroup100

Instead, we have sparse points that give insight sprinkled in between a bunch of posts that state the obvious.

So, like the debate the thread is about?

[stargroup100]

Originally Posted by devonin

So, like the debate the thread is about?

Yes.

It's a stupid debate to begin with.