The Current Path of FFR

[Dynam0]

First off, I'm not sure how this thread will be received. Mainly because people wouldn't give a damn in general, but also because I could be wrong about FFR's overall "action plan" or what this site strives for in the coming years. I am simply curious about what other peoples' opinions are about where this game is going, and what we can do to influence it. I know a mod can answer this question in a line or two and lock the topic without a hitch but I'm interested at what the general forum population thinks.

I personally think that if the game will continue on the way it is, it will eventually evolve into the flash equivalent of StepMania rather than a flash imitation of the game. Obviously there will be variations with the aesthetics and customization of certain things but the overall principles will be identical as well as performance. In addition to being the functional equivalent of StepMania I think it will also be the marketable equivalent of StepMania. There are a few things however that give FFR the upper hand, such as replay data and a comprehensive set of statistics that StepMania has yet to implement (SMO somewhat achieved leader boards but in no where the same detail and scope as FFR). As you all know, StepMania is freeware and makes zero money. If FFR seeks to emulate this with no real marketability other than detailed statistics, it won't gain popularity and will remain the small community that it is.

The above issue isn't really the meat and potatoes of my thought, the point to take from it is that this game isn't very attractive when you compare it to an open-source game that provides the same, if not a better, playing experience. That's not to say that FFR lacks the potential, I think it just needs restructuring if it intends to grow faster than it is now. I find the game increasingly unappealing to newer players and that it focuses much more on veteran players. When most people think of how to better accommodate a beginner player they immediately think, "Simple! Just step more beginner files, duh!" But I don't think this is enough. The game has grown to have well over 1000 public songs, immediately accessible to the beginner with no progression or "play to win" aspect to it at all. I'm not saying there aren't people who like to gauge their progress by repeatedly mashing through the same difficult files over and over until they achieve some semblance of control in what their doing, but the current system is HUGELY flawed towards newer players in my opinion and simply doesn't cater to mainstream for commercial purposes. (Again I strongly would like to emphasize that this entire blurb is dependent on the fact that FFR would like to progress on the path of growth and understand that there's no harm done in simply keeping it the way it is)

If this game were structured like say guitar hero where you have a systematic increase in difficulty that demands development of techniques like reading/speed/jacking/trilling etc. as you progress through a "series of levels" or even something as corny as a story, this game would be a lot more appealing to newer players. New players would play through these challenges and unlock more difficult songs upon attaining certain criteria (similar to skill token unlocks). Sorry but if I'm a new player and I understand the basic premise of the game (arrowsmash *cough*), I'm obviously going to find the most difficult files and play them with no recognition or conception of how they can actually be played well. After all, this is EXACTLY what I did when I first played StepMania. The reason why I stuck with the game is plain: I have an insane attention span and, unlike the average person, I had no problem playing a game with no set goals other than my own which was to achieve better scores, despite the fact that there were no rewards or unlockables. Even the old "pat-on-the-back" rewards that Nintendo is so popular for don't exist in these games, furthermore making them less appealing to the average person. An unlock system or progression would encourage improvement in order to play the 'wtf hard' songs which is an attractive reward for new players.

The in-game files have developed too many parodies and inside jokes that newcomers wouldn't understand, and would have no patience in understanding them. Show them a basic introduction to the game that progresses them down a path (I would discourage a linear path like guitar hero and would encourage a branching set of avenues) so that eventually they reach the point where they unlock all the insane and quite silly files. This gives them something to look forward to, instead of completely immersing them in a world full of terminology they don't understand and inside jokes they would simply stare blankly at.

Please, I encourage people to discuss this and if it's been discussed recently before (I honestly just made a new topic without digging) then direct me to that conversation.




EDIT:

tl;dr version - I'm concerned with how FFR is stretching further away from beginner players by suddenly immersing them in arrowsmash with no 'play-to-win' aspects. It's horribly unattractive to the average joe imo and continuing to get worse, again only an opinion though.

[prefx]

tl;dr?

[Charu]

I understand the concern.

I understand that FFR to new players is kind of overwhelming since the game pretty much goes.
Okay, I'mma gonna throw you in the world of arrows and you can decide what you want to do from there on, enjoy.

I understand that, but I don't think it should be restrictive of what songs you can play. Sure... some new players might go for the hardest song and see what they can do, it's only natural to see what you'll eventually be able to do if you play long enough. THAT could be overwhelming as well since they probably pick RATO or DP and probably go.
Holy crud... I'm never gonna get this good, I'm done.

It's hard though... I believe the premise of FFR is to get better scores, while also having fun tapping to the beats, like any other rhythm game. I don't think there should be a difficulty progression system. The rewards the game offers now I think is pretty good.

EDIT: Go look at OP's TL;DR, worded better.

[prefx]

TL;DR Version: FFR is hard for new players and gives no incentive to give new players to play.

I concur ty

[alloyus]

There's a set of tokens that are unlocked In a sequence already, I actually would like to see more of those myself.

[Pseudo Enigma]

I agree. The only thing that kept me playing in the first place was so I could compete with Mike and Herogashix. If I didn't have that I probably wouldn't have stayed for so long and made friends (which is a common reason for most people to STAY in a community, even if the whole thing is going down hill)

When I started playing I had no idea what to do actually. I just played the same song over and over again because I knew that it would make me a better player. Again, without the goal of becoming a better player in order to compete with my brothers, I would've just dropped the game thinking it was too hard and pointless. Because face it, all you're doing is tapping the keyboard at a certain beat, and pressing a different key for each column, it gets old after about a hundred songs. The new players don't have that goal unless they were brought here.

Honestly, if I just came here, I would be confused where the hell to go to play. It's not exactly obvious. You have to go to the dropdown menus which isn't ever the first thing I look at when I get to a site. From there I would be confused as to what to play, since new people probably don't know what the song list is, or where to access it. Even that disc menu is confusing as hell, since when you go to select a song, you select your favourite genre, pick a random song, and then holy shit this is too hard. I seriously think that ring menu should be sorted by difficulty instead of genre, honestly. That way people would actually use it (I don't.) and the new people would know exactly which songs to play. After losing every last song I have played, I would from there be discouraged, quit and never play the game again. Which seems common. The easiest songs aren't at all appealing.

We have boring slow music from 1-6, which are the first songs you have to play in order to get good. I remember sitting there waiting for the next arrow feeling really bored listening to I think it was Trip to the Moon? Anyway, we need some good songs that are shit your pants easy. LOTS of them. Because if we can't hook people into the game by getting them to play the genres they like, as opposed to the genres they hate, we can get a headstart, since they will want to play the other songs.

If anything, that's what I see is the problem.
TL;DR: We need a LOT of 1-5 files that are interesting, and more in each genre. We also need to make it more obvious what to do and where to go to play.

edit: then again, I probably just reiterated the whole OP

[top]

I strongly agree with the idea Dynam0 is suggesting. The feeling of accomplishment and progression is pretty grand, and it would be better more so if we added a sort of "level" system, similar to what the guys over at "The Unofficial FFR RPG Beta" are doing.
Dynam0 hit the nail on the head with his description, so I have no need to reiterate the idea.
+1

[Frank Munoz]

Inb4 FFR Story line~

[SKG_Scintill]

tl;dr: ****

[00Razor00]

in b4 massive shit storm and this thread ends up being locked

[foxfire667]

It really isn't that long of a read guys.

Anyway, I can understand why it would be a decent idea to give beginner players a sort of unlocking / reward / progression system. Allowing for newcomers to take in a lot of easier songs, and understand how to hit patterns in a progressively more difficult manner, would make things a lot less overwhelming. This could also motivate newer players to continue through the game, and would hopefully showcase the quick skill boosting that comes with playing (instead of dropping their jaw at Brutal / Ridiculous files and giving up). Maybe completing the missions could award extra credits, which could be used to purchase features in the game (like since early on people play one handed, maybe 100 credits could allow you to purchase custom key setup, or a custom speed-mod option). Then newcomers will have a lot to do, unlocking various options in the engine and progressing in skill level, and would overall make FFR a lot more appealing to outside users.

Perhaps completing certain levels or missions could be shown as profile badges if wanted, and maybe there could be a really cliche, hilarious storyline that goes with it.

The real question is if such an idea was adopted, what would be storyline be, or how should level progression / rewards / unlocks be handled?

[Wayward Vagabond]

FFR storyline haha yes

[Coolboyrulez0]

FFRPG Story mode quest line sounds ****ing sexy. (expanded skill token system with unlocks and progression + storyline.)

[Wayward Vagabond]

I'm going to write an FFR storyline similar to homestucks story

[qqwref]

That would be nice, sure. It's definitely a serious problem that there are no real rewards for newer players who are getting used to the game. Everyone on the forums thinks you're useless until you're mid D6, for instance. We also need something listing the best easy files for learning (e.g. ignore anything legacy or anything by Silvuh) in order to get people used to the game. Hell, even veteran players have lag issues and get intimidated by the massive songlist. That's just embarrassing.

But we've also got serious issues keeping old players happy. I'm only still here because I have a handful of friends. The moderating staff members abuse their power left and right and take constructive criticism as a personal insult, the coding/sysadmin staff members are almost completely absent and take months to get even simple stuff done (if they do it at all), and the broken judgment process constantly lets shitty files that nobody wants to play sit in the game forever. And that's not even mentioning the serious community issues that nobody seems interested in fixing. Even if we can make the game fun for beginners, the game will never go anywhere until the active players are happy with it.

[Frank Munoz]

Updated characters would be nice. If we had bad-ass characters with sexy hott, half naked chicks and handsomely buff male dudes we would prolly have a bigger audience.

also, carlos, i would just... lose my sht if you did

[00Razor00]

Originally Posted by qqwref

The moderating staff members abuse their power left and right and take constructive criticism as a personal insult, the coding/sysadmin staff members are almost completely absent and take months to get even simple stuff done (if they do it at all), and the broken judgment process constantly lets shitty files that nobody wants to play sit in the game forever. And that's not even mentioning the serious community issues that nobody seems interested in fixing.

true as ****

[Pseudo Enigma]

Originally Posted by Coolboyrulez0

FFRPG Story mode quest line sounds ****ing sexy. (expanded skill token system with unlocks and progression + storyline.)

each new level unlocks a new chapter or something? Maybe boss songs?

edit: oh yeah forgot that none of this shit would ever get done anyway. Can't count on the staff to do anything that requires effort.

[FissionMailed1]

qqwref just summed everything up, time to close the thread.

[ryuyasha]

Originally Posted by Dynam0

If this game were structured like say guitar hero where you have a systematic increase in difficulty that demands development of techniques like reading/speed/jacking/trilling etc.

I think the tourneys do just that. Songs start easy and get progressively difficult as the rounds progress. And the 6 divisions give people another way to mark their progress and reason to keep improving. Especially this well crafted tournament (that I am going to win!) where songs are picked based on what patterns and techniques are used.

Originally Posted by Dynam0

as you progress through a "series of levels" or even something as corny as a story, this game would be a lot more appealing to newer players.

You mean something like The Unofficial FFR RPG? We have a great story!

Originally Posted by Dynam0

New players would play through these challenges and unlock more difficult songs upon attaining certain criteria (similar to skill token unlocks)

I think you just answered your own question. Skill tokens are a great unlock system (other than that antipa rubbish) and not linear at all. Well, except for the chains where you have to unlock one skill token before you can even attempt the one that requires you to have it. But you can still go that route or work on other skill tokens in the mean time.

Originally Posted by Dynam0

An unlock system or progression would encourage improvement in order to play the 'wtf hard' songs which is an attractive reward for new players.

I think this misses the point. Having hard songs available to play is a good way practice those songs. To use the other extreme as an example, I really hate games that force players to start with mind-numbingly easy sections before they can get to what is even their starting skill level. I think having some songs as skill tokens, including hard and easy challenges, is a good middle ground that gives players of all skill levels something to work at.

Originally Posted by Dynam0

instead of completely immersing them in a world full of terminology they don't understand

We have a detailed picture dictionary for those who wish to learn the terminology. And the nice thing about most rhythm games, FFR included, is that you do not have to learn all the terminology to be able to play the game well. For example, I have been around for over 8 years and only recently learned that staircases and rolls had names. But not knowing the terminology never stopped me from learning to hit the patterns.