Keine's Class on the Official [Touhou Discussion] Thread

[Zybanthia]

Originally Posted by Karimono

In America, probably. In Japan, this became the start of Touhou's ultimate boom and popularity, because we play for the characters and story as much as the gaming aspect. You can't really say it sucks considering the fact that this was the start of the Touhou boom. I don't think the game is half-bad either.

I can actually say it sucks. No offense. I mean, no hitbox is a joke. I have to go through most of this game with a "good idea" of when I'm going to get hit. Name one other game in which you're not sure when you're going to get hit? Unless you want to spend countless hours memorizing exactly what movements you're allowed to make...

The music quality was fairly bad too. I understand he was working with some sort of primitive stuff, and the melodies are good, but the synthesizer is not nice to listen to. And as far as the characters go... there are about 7 instances of dialogue that last for about 30 seconds each. That's about... 3 or 4 minutes of dialogue. That's not even enough dialogue to create substantial characterization, haha. I didn't feel as if I knew the characters at all.

I realize this is what made Touhou popular, but it's really hard to play. And don't get me wrong... I like the other games. You can of course still get good at this game, it just requires more work on the player's part than it should.

[ddr_f4n]

Originally Posted by Karimono

Question: Why did Kochiya Sanae get 2nd place in the popularity contest? I don't see her anywhere online or irl that makes her seem popular, except for the Kannaduki OP remake on nicovideo.

Actually she made it 4th.

Also, she's popular for many things. First off, she's the second shrine maiden. Also, she's another human who fell in from the outside world. In doujinshi, she's highly abused in many ways, both embarrassingly and in NSFW ways, almost as much as Alice. She's highly attractive (well the fan-art is), and she's also very innocent-looking. Many people would love to meet her as soon as they enter Gensokyo.

Also, Sanae's a good girl *pat pat*.

[Karimono]

Originally Posted by Zybanthia

I realize this is what made Touhou popular, but it's really hard to play. And don't get me wrong... I like the other games. You can of course still get good at this game, it just requires more work on the player's part than it should.

Ok, except for the "than it should", because there is no "should be some way in particular" in the first place.

Originally Posted by ddr_f4n

Actually she made it 4th.

I'm blind.

Originally Posted by ddr_f4n

Also, she's popular for many things. First off, she's the second shrine maiden. Also, she's another human who fell in from the outside world. In doujinshi, she's highly abused in many ways, both embarrassingly and in NSFW ways, almost as much as Alice. She's highly attractive (well the fan-art is), and she's also very innocent-looking. Many people would love to meet her as soon as they enter Gensokyo.

I'm blind.

I don't not like her. Her origin and relation to the Suwa lake is very fascinating, as well as what could be imagined of her ties to the real world (although Yuyuko's high school days and its relation to why Yuyuko and Yakumo are friends are a lot more interesting...). It's just very hard to find a position for her, as well as the inhabitants of the second shrine, in a story connected to the other portions of a separate Touhou plotline because they're not part of the death cycle, nor are they a unique (nonoriental) addition to Gensoukyou. The only purpose they might serve is as a benchmark between the tengu region and the chuuu path to where the shinigami are. Now that I think about it, where do the dead first originate? I know they pass the chuuu path behind the Youkai Mountain to where the death gods wait to pass the Sanzu river to Higan, where the Enma decide whether you go the Tenkai, Jigoku, or Meikai (or Makai, although I'm not sure what happened to Makai as a position in Gensoukyou). Do the dead originate at the top of the mountain where the tengu live? Maybe there's some kind of summoning circle there. Or do they arrive from all over the place to find themselves suddenly going through the Chuuu path? That seems very unorganized. Does that mean that tengu and kappa allow certain ghosts to pass through their territory? Considering that Meikai ghosts can easily arrive at Youkai Mountain, I don't think that's really possible. I like thinking about these kinds of things.

I doubt we could meet her even if we got into Gensoukyou no matter how hard we tried.

Originally Posted by ddr_f4n

Also, Sanae's a good girl *pat pat*.

I see: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm5086463

but I'm still blind.

(The electric flute series is still very active, and very improved http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/5221166)

Oh, and this is what I meant by the Kannaduki OP, which is pretty good. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/nm5919692

Sangetsusei 2 was interesting, especially how ZUN used the tsuchinoko and the valley with the hexagonal pillars found at the foot of old volcanoes. I don't think the original idea of the tsuchinoko had the ability to grow roots rapidly like that. Does the valley come out as a setting in any other official storyline?

One thing that became clear from reading Sangetsusei 2 is that Genjii is still alive, and that Reimu has a pond, which Genjii inhabits, behind the shrine. Also, even if the setting is very oriental, ZUN doesn't forget to place the Orthodox celestial calendar in juxtaposition to the Oriental one, making Lucifer fight Sol to determine the power of the youkai in Gensoukyou for the year. I found that very interesting. Also again, I guess the internals of Hakurei Jinja isn't that complicated, assuming that the statue of the god takes up most of the central space. She only has room for a chuubou, ima, and genkan according to what I saw when Cirno and the trio did their carp ball scheme.

Lastly, do any of you comment on nicovideos? I've seen English comments a lot more recently. Just wondering if any of them were from you.

I want Sangetsusei 0. I believe I'm missing something quite important. That map that you gave me earlier isn't accurate anymore (nor was it that accurate in the first place...)

Another question: Tenkai is supposed to be above Meikai in position, but in SWR, most characters climb the Youkai Mountain. Although most of the setting sequences in SWR is random, it has a somewhat correlated correlation with how Gensoukyou looks according to Akyu. Is Tenkai expansive enough to reach the Youkai Mountain? Does the Tenkai itself have any barrier like the Meikai? Or is the Tenkai region just anywhere with land above a certain altitude? There also needs to be a place where the Ryuuguu live in Tenkai.

[Zybanthia]

Originally Posted by Karimono

Ok, except for the "than it should", because there is no "should be some way in particular" in the first place.

Hmmmm... I'd argue that if FFR didn't have speed mods, it'd be a lot harder to get good at it "than it should"... games have things they need in them. Especially games of a particular genre / series; of a particular mold. But I suppose I'll leave the conversation there.

[Karimono]

Originally Posted by Zybanthia

Hmmmm... I'd argue that if FFR didn't have speed mods, it'd be a lot harder to get good at it "than it should"... games have things they need in them. Especially games of a particular genre / series; of a particular mold.

Only under the idea that the game was created for the purpose of fitting said mold/genre/series. As a person who always reads ZUN's comments on the back of his books, his ideology over the creations he makes is very respectable. I think it would be better if everyone respected his "purpose" for creating what he makes. (Back of Akyu's guide in particular.) The player doesn't decide what should or shouldn't be something that a creator makes. The creator does. What you're doing is nothing more than forcibly placing Touhou under a generalized mob of other subjects with similar aspects. Each creation is an independent individual. It is also the creator's choice whether to follow the wishes of said players. ZUN chooses not to. FFR chooses to.

As for the definition of "should", that is something for a separate discussion.

You can reply to some of my Touhou stuff, considering that this is a Touhou thread and most of my previous post is about Touhou =__=.

More questions: Sanzu River is one of the two rivers that exists in Gensoukyou. Another one springs at the top of the Tengu region, flows down into or past the Suwa lake, down the Kappa region, down into the pond of the Toad God (according to Akyu), into the Lake of Mist or Fog (where Koumakan is) further down into the Valley of Hexagons(not the actual name, not sure what the actual name is yet), (probably even further into the real world). What's this river called?

I think these kinds of questions make it more Keine's Class-ish.

It's definitely worth translating, and playing.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/6568118
http://www26.atwiki.jp/touhoumother/

[ddr_f4n]

Well two things happened...

1) New IOSYS video released:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6256731
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTuN33djP98&fmt=18
http://iosysspecial.sakura.ne.jp/toh...ent_tr01pv.swf

GIANT SWING! GIANT SWING!

And the best for last...

2) ****ING TOUHOU 12 ANNOUNCED! DEMO WILL BE RELEASED AT REITAISAI! PLAYABLE ****ING SANAE! HOLY ****ING **** YES!

http://kourindou.exblog.jp/

[chidori!]

wut omg already wut teh ell!
EDIT: wait so theres another album too?

[Karimono]

March 8th. I'll be there.

Reimu looks like Reimu. Yay.

something for the night.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/nm6259324

What are the chances that this whole ZUNFO thing will connect to the Lunarians?

[Karimono]

2nd PV of the new IOSYS CD.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6327843

I love the atmosphere of Japan's steak restaurants. Although it's not really steak, it's pan/net-fried thinly sliced meat.

Why do you only introduce IOSYS PVs anyway?

[ddr_f4n]

Originally Posted by Karimono

Why do you only introduce IOSYS PVs anyway?

I forgot to post that 2 days ago >.<

Anyways, there are dozens of Touhou PVs out there, and since IOSYS seems to be the most popular atm, I'm posting those.

Of course, you can find more Touhou videos here:
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/in...p?topic=1356.0

I might as well post this as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg2z1hXOu60&fmt=18
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6328170

[ddr_f4n]

Btw, in case no one visits Maidens of the Kaleidoscope, we're having an IaMP tounament. Sadly, registrations are closed, but once this is done, we're most likely going to have another tournament, but the next is most likely a SWR tournament.

More info on it here:
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/in...p?topic=1745.0

[ddr_f4n]

Anyways, the demo is out, and I managed to obtain it.

I'll wait a day to see if ZUN will post a link to download tomorrow (or today, whatever comes first =/) at his site, which is more than likely.

[ddr_f4n]

And now triple post for my thoughts on the demo...

Music:
For the first few Windows Touhou games from TH6-9, the music was very memorable and nice the first time I played them. TH10 and TH11 had music that took a few playthroughs to actually remember the music, and to find out that they were just as awesome as TH6-9. TH12 falls within TH10 and TH11. Right now the songs are a little hard to remember, but the stage 1 boss theme sounds really good compared to the previous stage 1 boss themes. The stage levels sounds a lot better than SA's stage levels at least.

Characters/Artwork:
Let me tell you, the previous games ZUN was known for pretty bad artwork, most noticeably with TH10 Reimu (Zombie Reimu). But this game it seems that his artwork GREATLY IMPROVED. Reimu looks like Reimu, Marisa looks like Marisa with a wand now (lolwut?), and Sanae looks like a good girl. The bosses also have better artwork. Nazrin's (Stage 1 boss) artwork is actually fappable too.

Gameplay:
Now this game has many twists compared to the previous games. First off, separate bombs are now back. Every character has their bomb for their shot-type, therefore Marisa DOES have her Master Spark back (hooray!). Now, SA's shot-types weren't really the best. None of them were really. UFO has shot-types that are actually useful, and not one of them are as bad as SA. Except for ReimuB's shot-type, which is almost like ReimuB's SA shot-type, but better, but not the homing type like in PCB or IN.

UFO has the new "UFO system" which is actually VERY USEFUL if used correctly. Some enemies drop UFO looking items in different colours, but most of them change their colours after a couple of seconds. If you pick up 3 of the same colours, a UFO will appear. It will collect all of the items on-screen, and use it to drop whatever it's supposed to drop, and they are really easy to destroy. UFO's comes in 3 colours; red, blue, and green. Red UFO's drops large life stars that'll fill up 2/5 of your next life. Blue drops bombs, and green drops points.

The thing with this is that it makes it A LOT easier to 1CC the game it seems, since there are A LOT of UFOs throughout the first 3 stages.

Now for the bullet patterns and levels. The levels itself aren't really the best, mostly being somewhat repetitive at some points. The first two bosses have nice bullet patterns that are actually FUN. But the third stage boss, holy crap that was a shocker. She summons (Unzan who is an enlightened spirit made of clouds, and yes it's a GUY), and he literally uses his fists as danmaku, which leaves behind a few bullets. Not only that, but he also shoots lasers out of his eyes. This boss is actually bad-ass and made of win IMO.

--------------------------

Normally I would give it a rating, but considering it being a demo, I'll wait for the full version to come out actually rate the entire game itself.

[Flandre Scarlet]

Sounds pretty bad-ass. I can look forward to this it seems. =) Master Spark comes back for Marisa I guess <3

And then I'll have a touhou game on my comp again, since for now I don't have the others because of my reformat.

[Kilgamayan]

i left you guys for this

just fyi

don't forget about the full version of ufo coming soon btw

[ddr_f4n]

Oh hey Kilga I completely forgot about this thread >.<

Yeah, UFO's coming out at the next comiket (C76) so be on the lookout.

Also, Tasofro released an image in at their site. Many speculate that it could either be a SWR expansion, or an entirely new game.
http://www.tasofro.net/

All we know is that it's going to be released by C76. So who knows what it could be =/.

[chidori!]

new game that's impossible :O! looks like team battles
who ever made patchcon should make an update
also when is C76?

[ddr_f4n]

Oh thanks for reminding me about this again.

About the game, it's confirmed as an expansion of SWR. It's number 12.3. It will feature 5 new character, 3 which are known atm, and the other two being completely original and new characters.

The 3 known characters are Sanae (Sucking ZUN's dick now), Cirno, and Meiling.

It doesn't appear to be a team battle game, more like Sanae can summon Suwako and Kanako to fight by her side.

Also, UFO announced to be released on August 15th if I haven't mentioned that before.

But this is all old news though.

Also, it is now canon that Sanae watches mecha anime XD.

[tanarus]

UFO's been released. Hisotensoku's been released. Been having lots of fun with both. Surprised ddr_fan hasn't updated this since then. Someone go bug 'em. ;3

[ddr_f4n]

Why? I pretty much forgot about this website in general. Also, I've been having quite a few problems with my laptop(s) in general, so yeah.

But I did manage to play them both. A lot of things happened other than the releases.

So yada yada UFO released 4 new characters; Captain Minamitsu Murasa, Shou Toramaru, Byakuren Hiziri, and Nue Houjuu. I'll review this game later. Probably by next monday or so.

Then there's Touhou 12.3, aka Unthinkable Natural Law (unofficial English name) or UNL. Two other characters revealed whom are Utsuho (****ing yes) and Suwako (lolwut?). Again, I'll review this later as well.

Now, something else we missed was the SWR ENGLISH PATCH. You can get it here.

Also, new UFO colorblind patch for those having trouble telling the difference between the different colored UFO's. You can get that here.