insomnia :(

[Sanjixcon]

So this is me basically just complaining about my long term chronic insomnia issues. If anyone has similar problems and knows of a way to fix them lemme know.

Additional info: Height 5'11/Weight 210/Age 28/Sex Male

Every single night either one of two things happens to me..

1.) I don't fall asleep at all (completely conscious all night long). ~3 nights per week.

2.) Fall asleep quickly but then wake up 2-4 hours later incapable of falling back asleep (I just lay there until the sun rises).

This has been going on every night for over a year now! The weird thing is I never sleep or take naps during the daytime so i'm literally only getting 0-4 hours sleep per 24 hour cycle.
I don't even know how or why this started. I always used to sleep good like 8-9 hours per night. Then randomly one night my brain decided I only need 4 hours.

Here's what I've tried so far that doesn't work for me..
-Melatonin
-Magnesium
-Tylenol pm's
-Sleepy time tea
-Muscle Relaxers (Cyclobenzaprine)
-Ambien
-Weed/Alcohol
-Sleep Hygiene (exercise, eat somewhat healthy, no caffeine, clean bedroom, cool temperature, no computer/tv 1 hour before bed, blacked out curtains, white noise machine ect)
-ASMR videos on youtube (I enjoy these but it's more just for relaxation)

I don't have insurance and it costs about $2000 for a sleep study so can't really do that. Plus, you actually have to fall asleep in some random ass motel room with a buncha wires hooked up to your head and people watching/filming you.
like wtf

I recently bought a new mattress tho (like 4 days ago) and some different size pillows so i'm really hoping that will help some. I guess I'll know for sure after a week or two.
I just feel like my brain has been rewired to auto wake after ~4 hours sleep regardless of what I do tho so It's very frustrating.

For those of you who sleep good.. don't take it for granted! it's a precious thing.

[Hakulyte]

Initial thought would be to consult a doctor if you can and ask about getting some EEG scan in case you think there's a sleep disorder @ some irregularities in your sleep. I'm not sure why you mentioned a study when this should be more of a normal appointment. It could lead to a prescription with sleeping pills etc.

Other things you might have tried already:

Do you think you can condition yourself to go sleep at a specific hour ?
The conditioning could turn into an habit and the habit could unconsciously help sleep because it makes the brain associate a specific hour with sleeping.
You can then note when you wake up and try to adjust/experiment around that.

e.g: You set an alarm at like X am/pm and you go sleep at that hour regardless of if it doesn't work.
You repeat the process until you get used to it if you notice a difference over 2-3 days.

That's what I had to do to slowly fix my sleep schedule for school.

Insomnia may work differently.

If it fails, you should consider taking naps and/or investing more time into attempting to sleep.
Older people tend to sleep less and got such a strong habit of not sleeping much that taking naps becomes the main alternative.

Oh yeah, if you're on the computer, you probably want to stop like 1 hour before you go sleep. The transition from computer -> bed can be kinda harsh and it can take a while before you fall asleep.

Originally Posted by Sanjixcon

1.) I don't fall asleep at all (completely conscious all night long). ~3 nights per week.

2.) Fall asleep quickly but then wake up 2-4 hours later incapable of falling back asleep (I just lay there until the sun rises).

Yeah, that feels like you're conditioned to not sleeping as much (or at all). Any idea what could cause you to not fall asleep ? Stress/anxiety ? Can you burn it down with exercises or do you also not fall asleep even when you're really tired ?

[Sanjixcon]

@haku
yea most nights I lay down around 11pm-1am and that's been my routine for years.
It's not stress/anxiety related... like my body is tired and my brain is tired but something just keeps me alert.

when it comes to doctors i'm a little unsure of how to even go about it without health insurance. I mentioned the sleep study bc thats something anyone can do. like do you just walk in and ask for tests to be done on you? even if u cant pay for it? i might have to find a special clinic or something.

the problem with sleeping pills is its hard to find ones that are designed to keep you asleep rather then just knock you out and then leave the blood stream when ur needing it most in the early morning hours.

daytime naps might just have to become a thing.

[SKG_Scintill]

sharp
these lines
so sharp
end to end
may be sharp
sharper than
these lines
do they cross
so sharp
can they cross
do they cut
eachother
these lines
is there more
so empty
this space
so lonely
these lines
emptier
lonelier
one by one
going on
every one
stops at
some point
these points
so sharp
sharper than
these lines
full of them
of points
together
this space
sharp

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Sanjixcon

when it comes to doctors i'm a little unsure of how to even go about it without health insurance. like do you just walk in and ask for tests to be done on you? even if u cant pay for it? i might have to find a special clinic or something.

It depends. I'm in Canada.

Where I live, general hospitals are free, but with a really long wait time (3 months to 1 year).
Clinics costs money, but you can get checked much faster. (You can directly go and wait in line or take an appointment and go at a specific time. (still faster than hospital))

You may have to pay a part or the full price for a prescription if you have no health insurance depending if you consulted the doctor first. (usually full price if you went there first somehow, but lower if you consulted a doctor and got a paper)

Doing a test like the EEG scan was free in my case. (I had to go there for different reasons)
Obviously, clinics most likely don't have the machine for EEG scan so, you will probably get refered to the general hospital anyway, but you're going to skip the wait for the first appointment. (still worth it)

No idea for US unfortunately.

[Sanjixcon]

i liked that poem btw scint very relaxing

yeah haku i should prob research more about what i can and can't do without insurance but thx for all the info canada sounds pretty alright to me. ideally, finding a natural way to consistently sleep good is what im really goin for...ide rather have to do some weird routines every night then to have to take pills.

has anyone ever watched stuff like this? its weird but relaxing at the same time.. but mostly weird. idk i kinda like it.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCik...UbXCPYw/videos

[Cavernio]

do you get distressed that you're not sleeping?

idk what my sleep is going to regulate to these days, but for the past few years I had a pretty strict 'split sleep', sleep, wake up mind racing for a few hours, then go back to sleep for a bit

Due to my lack of responsibilities in life this has been fine for me.

I sometimes feel like I spend all night conscious even though I feel my body relax.

One of my friends said he never really sleeps either although he needs rest, been that way for years, he's...40 something, been off and on street drugs and alcohol a lot of his life

I use this time as meditation time which...is kinda meaningless as a term, meditation lol, but suffice it to say that it doesn't have to be a period of distress for me these days

[Cavernio]

'healthy' sleep is simply societal determination for what will work best to fit into society though
like back when we were teenagers we probably all experienced staying up late as a thing, and science says that that's natural for teenagers to do that, but the social world they live in still makes them go to school, wake up at like 7am
I wouldn't place too much weight on your lack of sleep if you're surviving just fine otherwise
if you otherwise have a lot of stress, then the key to sleeping better is probably dealing with your mental and emotional stressors in a different manner than you're currently doing
mind/body work that way

[Sanjixcon]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

do you get distressed that you're not sleeping?

idk what my sleep is going to regulate to these days, but for the past few years I used to have pretty strict 'split sleep', sleep, wake up mind racing for a few hours, then go back to sleep for a bit

Due to my lack of responsibilities in life this has been fine for me.

I sometimes feel like I spend all night conscious even though I feel my body relax.

One of my friends said he never really sleeps either although he needs rest, been that way for years, he's...40 something, been off and on drugs a lot of his life

Yeah i get pretty frustrated when i can't sleep and then it turns to anger which makes me feel even more awake. I think the only stress in my life is worrying about not getting enough sleep lol it's a vicious cycle.

i'm a really light sleeper too so even when i'm asleep I still feel like im not all the way asleep. like i get stuck in stage 2 or something.

i heard some ppl rly dont need sleep. ~1% of the population.
like that dude from china that just meditated every night for 8 hours instead of sleeping and he lived til 98 or somethin... worked on a farm too.

[Sanjixcon]

sometimes i'm awake during my dreams.
like ill feel the blankets and my body laying in bed and i'll even turn over and my dream will keep going uninterrupted. like im aware that im dreaming and im aware that im awake lying there all at the same time.. its weird. kinda hard to explain.

[Cavernio]

I too have read of links between lack of sleep and meditative practices, I believe I have experienced some of this myself, but it's a little hard for me to tell because my 'meditative' time has also been pretty heavily laced with weed, so teasing about cause and effect is a little hard. (I'm going weed free though due to internal desire to NOT get high anymore though, like, it's easy I have no craving), so I will in time be able to tell one thing or another with more certainty

I like to drift and watch the thoughts, feel the emotions of anger, frustration enter into my body, feel them well in chest, rise in my throat, go to my head, emotions have so much energy to them! (I've read a lot of accounts of people feeling things in their stomach, I'm not much for that though)

I mean, I do that because...it's kinda the only thing to do and the best way I can relax if I can't actually sleep



ok I was actually in the psyc ward for 4 days recently and I'm not sure I slept during any of it. I know I felt my body 'relax' but my
brain? I think it was on the entire time.

I sometimes feel like I rest more when I sit up actually now...it just feels better

I get what you're saying sanji, I know that feeling very well

I don't dream like I used to either

[Sanjixcon]

thats what happens on my sleepless nights... i just lay there body relaxed and totally still but the mind never actually falls alseep. its like a part of it is always conscious and u remember the whole night like its an extremely long movie.
my back will actually start hurting sometimes from just laying there so long without sleeping and i have to get up like u said its more comfortable in a chair.

the longest ive gone without sleep was on a recent camping trip. 5 nights in a row i just tossed and turned in my tent, we actually had to come home two days early bc i was so messed up from not sleeping. and i was drinking and smoking the entire time. had such a huge migrane, blurry vision, slurred speech and i kept seeing sparkly light out of my periferal vision.



i hope your internal change went well and everything is good with you cavernio! it was nice to hear from someone who understands the pain/frustration from lack of sleep.
i'm glad you could sleep last night such an amazing feeling like wow i have enough energy now to actually do stuff today.

[Cavernio]

oh dear, those symptoms of not sleeping for 5 days sound bad, but you were also drugging yourself

I, um, underwent a significant internal change the past couple of weeks (its kinda documented in tgb), its been pretty all-encompassing

I actually slept last night for...idk, a bunch of it. It was nice.

Glass of warm milk? I recently quit dairy as I read about it affecting our opiate system. I do think it fogs my brain, but my brain also thinks I fog my brain so...

I met other people in the psyc ward who seemed concerned about not being able to sleep and they were telling me 'you're going to need to sleep eventually', they were talking about the various drugs they've taken to sleep and stuff, the free psyc ward here in canada will drug you if you want and maybe if you don't want

[FirstMaple8]

gl treating it dude

[Sanjixcon]

thanks =]
its a process.
i think for me its more psychological. Gotta retrain the brain.

[Cavernio]

I am sleeping more regularly now if anyone wants to know.
I'm also not getting random sweats followed by chills.
So I'm chalking up a good deal of my not-sleeping to weed withdrawal.
I am still not really dreaming regularly though. I seem almost void of dream.

[Sanjixcon]

^Hey so glad to hear that

I think my new beds helping a little but 4 hours sleep just seems to be my number.

[Moria]

Try distancing yourself from a computer screen and artificial lights earlier in the nights to lessen any subconscious impressions your mind makes about whether or not it should be active. a lot of this generation spends too long in front of a screen and that constant illumination can wire brains into thinking that it's not time to rest yet

or lesser extreme but still as effective, set up some night hours for your computer to lower its screen brightness after a certain time, mine dims at 8pm

[Moria]

And when you're laying in bed blank and alert, you might benefit from distraction from the desired outcome, forget you're here to sleep and appreciate the fabric embracing your body or the warmth encompassing you with a comfort. think about an ideal scenario outside of the influence your immediate envoironment has, separate from the stresses you retain in your day to day life. cherish the moment and enjoy that time you have to yourself to think and reflect on what you enjoy