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Old 08-23-2018, 11:54 PM   #1
Arch0wl
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Default VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

or rather, the Horowitz center claims this.



https://www.dailywire.com/news/34955...witz-paul-bois
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...david-horowitz

Last edited by Arch0wl; 08-24-2018 at 03:56 PM..
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:07 AM   #2
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

this could be bullshit, since I have never heard of anything like this before.

I want it to be bullshit.

but if it isn't, this is one of the most important domestic US stories all year.
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:11 AM   #3
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

what I am suspecting happened is that the SPLC, or some group like this, bombed his organizations with deliberately fraudulent investigations to get VISA to investigate.

this is not much different than bombing videos with many fake reports to get algorithms to remove the content.

if that's true, we cannot keep accepting complaints at face value, and this whole system of "trust people's complaints first" is a glaring vulnerability that threatens the integrity of information as a whole.

Last edited by Arch0wl; 08-24-2018 at 12:17 AM..
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Old 08-24-2018, 03:29 AM   #4
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

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Originally Posted by Arch0wl View Post

if that's true, we cannot keep accepting complaints at face value, and this whole system of "trust people's complaints first" is a glaring vulnerability that threatens the integrity of information as a whole.
I kind of agree with this sentiment -- situationally

For me it boils down to power dynamics: institutions with more power have a disproportionate amount of influence when it comes to... well, a lot of things. YouTube in particular has a similar kind of problem, where content creators get flagged whenever they portray certain IPs in a negative light, regardless of whether or not Fair Use is invoked. The ones that flag the videos (the "complainers" in this case) almost exclusively win these fights because YouTube just automatically sides with the flagging party, regardless of context -- this is, more or less, because the flagging party tends to have more power: they're executives, back by legal teams, etc.

Sure, free market and blah blah, but "with great power comes great responsibility" -- and, obviously, Visa/Mastercard have a lot of power.

With that said.

That doesn't vindicate Horowitz in this kind of case --- I'm pretty sure there's something we're not privy to at the moment, some subtlety that justifies whatever is going on here. Perhaps the complaints were legitimate, perhaps Visa/Mastercard already have performed an investigation, whatever. I have the feeling that something like this doesn't "just happen" arbitrarily, especially at these higher tiers of corporation (compared against the bakery situation, which was rather arbitrary, occurring a low corporate level).
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Old 08-24-2018, 03:48 AM   #5
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

to break from the tone of the first page for a second:

thank you, backpack, for taking the time to read this and comment thoughtfully. I appreciate it.
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Are you gonna post in this thread after your opening posts or are you gonna abandon this like all of your CT threads
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:18 AM   #7
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

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Are you gonna post in this thread after your opening posts or are you gonna abandon this like all of your CT threads
the lifetime of a thread is, ostensibly, months

not replying for a few hours is not "abandonment"

moreover, stay on topic. you know what you're doing.
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Nah
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:26 AM   #9
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

maybe Horowitz freedom center got blocked because, you know, it's a hate group lol
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:30 AM   #10
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

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maybe Horowitz freedom center got blocked because, you know, it's a hate group lol
that's... clearly the implication of why this is an issue. are you paying attention? at all?

it is possibly one of the worst precedents the american economy and american politics could set in the past decade for a group's commerce to be able to be blocked by credit card companies because of any sort of political label, nevermind anything as vague as "hate group."

in what universe do you not see your position as backward and completely wrong
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:00 AM   #11
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

wow dang i didnt realize the act of letting a credit card company freely choose if they want to do business with a racist organization would be such a terrible precedent
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:19 AM   #12
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

it is difficult to compress the scope of how wrong both of you are into words that properly convey how false each and every thing you said was. it is mentally taxing to walk on the eggshells created by this rule system to convey the gravity of other people believing the non-thoughts both of you just typed, while also skirting the asinine rules that prevent me from "insulting" you because telling a person they are wrong on every axis of evaluation and every scope to which a thought can be conceived is "insulting", even though this is precisely how wrong you both are.

it's unbelievable that both of you even halfway buy what you're saying, and you've clearly not thought about it at all, as you both are parroting pseudo-libertarian mockery you undoubtedly repeat ad nauseam for any speech policy issue so that you don't have to think about the ramifications, or the policy, or what the words even mean.

it is illegal for credit card companies to discriminate in this way. this is why, up to this point, they have not.

what is most likely happening here is that the SPLC bombarded VISA with fraudulent transactions to flag the horowitz center.

either way, this is what you did
person: wow, this company is blowing up the moon
you: lol a private company can blow up the solar system if they want
how you post here with anything resembling an unguilty conscience is beyond me.

what both of you are thoughtlessly advocating is something that is already illegal, and far worse than what is actually going on, even though what is actually going on is one of the most concerning events to happen all year. it is not common, at all, for a credit card company to block people for speech. this is concerning period. you are wrong, whether or not you think so, for not making this a concern of yours. you are against the "right side of history" -- you cannot be on the right side of history if you are on the wrong side of reality. it doesn't matter what you feel. your feelings don't matter. you're wrong. you are not right. you are the opposite of correct. you are backward. you could have never existed and your opinions could have been adopted by an AI machine and run forever as the passing of time is extended indefinitely by simulation and they'd be wrong until the heat death of the universe, and even after that.

and here you are, typing happy-go-lucky shit with the bambi-esque tone of "this could never be redefined to work against me because I have all the right ideas!" as if you don't understand the concept of precedent, or principle, and you cannot think at all how any sort of thing like this could be abused due to whatever limits on imagination exist for you or your political sensibility.
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:21 AM   #13
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch0wl View Post
it is difficult to compress the scope of how wrong both of you are into words that properly convey how false each and every thing you said was. it is mentally taxing to walk on the eggshells created by this rule system to convey the gravity of other people believing the non-thoughts both of you just typed, while also skirting the asinine rules that prevent me from "insulting" you because telling a person they are wrong on every axis of evaluation and every scope to which a thought can be conceived is "insulting", even though this is precisely how wrong you both are.

it's unbelievable that both of you even halfway buy what you're saying, and you've clearly not thought about it at all, as you both are parroting pseudo-libertarian mockery you undoubtedly repeat ad nauseam for any speech policy issue so that you don't have to think about the ramifications, or the policy, or what the words even mean.

it is illegal for credit card companies to discriminate in this way. this is why, up to this point, they have not.

what is most likely happening here is that the SPLC bombarded VISA with fraudulent transactions to flag the horowitz center.

either way, this is what you did
person: wow, this company is blowing up the moon
you: lol a private company can blow up the solar system if they want
how you post here with anything resembling an unguilty conscience is beyond me.

what both of you are thoughtlessly advocating is something that is already illegal, and far worse than what is actually going on, even though what is actually going on is one of the most concerning events to happen all year. it is not common, at all, for a credit card company to block people for speech. this is concerning period. you are wrong, whether or not you think so, for not making this a concern of yours. you are against the "right side of history" -- you cannot be on the right side of history if you are on the wrong side of reality. it doesn't matter what you feel. your feelings don't matter. you're wrong. you are not right. you are the opposite of correct. you are backward. you could have never existed and your opinions could have been adopted by an AI machine and run forever as the passing of time is extended indefinitely by simulation and they'd be wrong until the heat death of the universe, and even after that.

and here you are, typing happy-go-lucky shit with the bambi-esque tone of "this could never be redefined to work against me because I have all the right ideas!" as if you don't understand the concept of precedent, or principle, and you cannot think at all how any sort of thing like this could be abused due to whatever limits on imagination exist for you or your political sensibility.
lmao
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

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anything i write
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Old 08-25-2018, 02:37 PM   #15
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch0wl View Post
either way, this is what you did
person: wow, this company is blowing up the moon
you: lol a private company can blow up the solar system if they want
how you post here with anything resembling an unguilty conscience is beyond me.

pretty bad analogy i think

Quote:
Originally Posted by arch0wl

"this could never be redefined to work against me because I have all the right ideas!"
but this is still valid
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Old 08-25-2018, 03:54 PM   #16
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by melonpapes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch0wl View Post
"this could never be redefined to work against me because I have all the right ideas!"
but this is still valid
is what I was responding to
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Old 08-25-2018, 04:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

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Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill View Post
is what I was responding to
you're going to have to expand on the point you're trying to make. sorry. i don't follow. i think its valid to proclaim that the definition of "right ideas" is subjective and it is always possible with this precedent in place for someone to stretch the definition of right and wrong as to shutdown opposition. the people calling the shots aren't always going to be aligned with your viewpoint.
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:03 AM   #18
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

Visa and Mastercard are private companies who can decide to conduct or not conduct business with whomever they decide, end of story.
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Old 08-25-2018, 02:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

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Visa and Mastercard are private companies who can decide to conduct or not conduct business with whomever they decide, end of story.
I have a feeling posts like this are not gonna age well. now even your payment processors/credit card handlers are getting their greasy hands in the virtue signalling ring? just move money and shut the fuck up jesus christ.
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:29 AM   #20
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Default Re: VISA/Mastercard blocks payment to Horowitz Center because of SPLC

you have zero self-perspective and warped priorities, what else is new.
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