Let harder files in ?

[xXOpkillerXx]

So I just read a few posts in the thread about moving RATO and DP to token files and this idea came to me; it seems like a few people are now simply trying to complete this game since there are no higher goals left except for the few remaining files that they didnt AAA yet. My idea is to have legit hard files that would be faster/tougher than the highest files ingame (excluding vRofl), even if it sounds silly, look at it this way: when you can only play files up to 50s, most files in the 75-100 range just seem impossible. Well some people get AAAs on them. So why not have those files that would make the best players feel the same thing ? In my opinion, it would bring much more diversity and funnier leaderboards (yes, it's annoying to only try to improve a score by 1 good, let alone having to do that with all your remaining non-AAAs). Also, just to support this, think about why people play stuff on rates... it's mostly because they dont find enough diversity/challenge in their actual goals (stuff that is registered in the leaderboards). [This is meant to let the best players set new goals, and maybe even have the lower players some challenge to pass those files]

So, what do you guys think ?

[DossarLX ODI]

That's what Hard Songs Batches are for.

A big problem is song choice. Fast awkward one handed bursts into jumps, etc. are old. Too many overlayered charts. Songs are stuck at a BPM where many bursts or fast minijacks/jumpgluts are needed to bring the difficulty up (e.g. something like 225 BPM).

FFR has a lot of permissions, but only a few of them are used. The main problem is how forced the difficulty is when steppers are not using appropriate songs to begin with, so there winds up being a lot of jacks, fast minijacks mixed with bursts, anchors, etc. that are disproportionately hard to the rest of the file.

I'll give an example: Extratone Pirates Drunk Optimus Remix and Husigi. Husigi is 160 BPM I believe, EP is 250 BPM. Husigi relies on a lot of heavy jack usage with one handed transitions and sudden fast bursts for difficulty; it's only 160 BPM, so that really is the only way to spike the difficulty up. EP is more speed based and still requires good one handed control, but Husigi is way harder to manage.

[I like it]

i would definitely agree, there's just not enough songs in game that are really hard that aren't retarded or tokens

[xXOpkillerXx]

Song choice is not a big deal, it's much more how strict most of you guys are when it comes to judging files. I mean, there are many files in stepmania that are very hard yet still very fun to play.

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx

Song choice is not a big deal

I see users submitting charts from the same music artists all the time. It definitely is a big deal. FFR has many permissions, and only a few of them are being used.

[mi40]

hard to find songs that warrant stuff that's harder than let's say, winter wind etude & extratone pirates


esp. given our limited # of permissions

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

I see users submitting charts from the same music artists all the time. It definitely is a big deal. FFR has many permissions, and only a few of them are being used.

what do you mean, same artists all the time
save for the few artists that have a ton of music (S.S.H, OSTER Project, Venetian Snares, cornandbeans, The Flashbulb, Sharpnel, Sanxion7, paraoka, mosaic.wav, etc)

most of ffr is comprised of artists that have 1-5 songs in the game

the reason why you THINK this way is because you dont PLAY EASIER FILES, and most of the harder songs tend to be well.. from the artists that produce fast/complex music

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

I see users submitting charts from the same music artists all the time. It definitely is a big deal. FFR has many permissions, and only a few of them are being used.

Well use these permissions then. I see no problem having multiple files from same music artists, as long as there is variety.

[TheSaxRunner05]

As long as they are well stepped and well synced, I have no problem with hard files in the game. Like someone else said, there are a lot of hard but fun files in SM.

[XelNya]

Define "hard."

The average player considers charts that are 30+ extremely difficult.

We get a rather large amount of hard charts sent into the batch, in fact we have more "hard" charts" sent than "easy" ones.

Keep in mind for my post's purposes, "hard" in this case is 40+.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Define "hard."

The average player considers charts that are 30+ extremely difficult.

We get a rather large amount of hard charts sent into the batch, in fact we have more "hard" charts" sent than "easy" ones.

Keep in mind for my post's purposes, "hard" in this case is 40+.

You got my point wrong ;/

I said: "This is meant to let the best players set new goals" which means, in this case, files that, with our actual system, would be like 98 to something over 100 (meaning harder than RATO/DP).

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by mi40

the reason why you THINK this way is because you dont PLAY EASIER FILES, and most of the harder songs tend to be well.. from the artists that produce fast/complex music

The context of this thread is specifically to harder files. That list you made does describe a decent chunk of files sent to the batch that are harder in difficulty, and they tend to be overlayered and/or have sudden fast bursts that get old very fast.

[TheSaxRunner05]

The average player that still plays is at least D2 by this point (maybe low D3), while the average poster is D4ish. Most of my scores on recent VC+ files are only in the top 40% or so of all scores and I'm considered low D4. The "even D2 players are top 10%" idea is blatantly wrong when you look at only active players if you look at songs released in the last year.

Kind of a different topic though.

[Charu]

Kind of hard to make patterns unique and exciting the higher the difficulty you want. From this point, it really comes down to music preference and if someone really digs song that so happens to be super hard and not forced.

Even if steppers made a chart with music that calls for very hard and tricky stuff, it's all about what the music contains to make it interesting, not the patterns, dohoho.

[One Winged Angel]

I'm waiting for this to be derailed with 'no that's dumb because combo scoring', 'he's right, let's do raw scoring'

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by Charu

Kind of hard to make patterns unique and exciting the higher the difficulty you want. From this point, it really comes down to music preference and if someone really digs song that so happens to be super hard and not forced.

Even if steppers made a chart with music that calls for very hard and tricky stuff, it's all about what the music contains to make it interesting, not the patterns, dohoho.

The biggest problem with overlayering is that it severely limits the patterns available to use in the chart. It also reduces the emphasis that a jump, hand, etc. would normally give.

There have been plenty of batch submissions where there were opportunities to make an interesting chart, but then the stepartist decided to just stick with the hihats, layer another instrument, and create broken jumpstream with hands. And this happens a *LOT*.

[andy-o24]

Originally Posted by EzExZeRo7497

This is exactly why I feel that these files should be moved. If it was raw scoring I'd personally don't care about RATO and DP being moved to tokens. But since it's a combo-based game, I'd much rather see it as tokens because the score spread is just... ridiculously large and I don't think it will change any time soon. It's more on the fact that files like this are just not suitable for a combo-based game like this. I understand that there should be files that should be hard to FC but also should be in the leaderboards, but for files like RATO and DP, people just mindlessly mash the entire thing just to get a respectable rank. If they're in token ranks, they'd probably be more inclined to PA it instead.

Slightly off topic, but I'd much rather see CP outside token ranks as well.

This mashing for a good rank will still be an issue. If the top players are okay with allowing these scores to exist while they try to PA and perhaps miss a note or two and have their rank tank, I don't see why not. Otherwise, perhaps there isn't really a need for these files.

-o24

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by andy-o24

This mashing for a good rank will still be an issue. If the top players are okay with allowing these scores to exist while they try to PA and perhaps miss a note or two and have their rank tank, I don't see why not. Otherwise, perhaps there isn't really a need for these files.

-o24

Well take RATO and DP, best players have best scores, even if it took time to get the FC along with the nice score. Eventually, the hardest files will also have normal rankings, even with the mashed FCs

[Fission]

brb getting permission for and submitting conspiracy of silence

[mi40]

dossar's mp3 player

[Xayphon]

more terminal 11 gogogogog