jTWG

[Brilliant Dynamite Neon]

I'm really fd up right now but I recall that danceguy pr someone mentioned that jTWGs could be run in a format similar too MS. Specifically, rit was to run small, simple games, and like reserve a majority of spots for newer players, but allow vets and such to join and coach the players and/or point out stuff postgame. Which i'd heartily agree with because many new arrivals have said that they learned by playing with the more experienced players and then evaluationg the game after, while at the same time being intimidated by some of the setups.

[lurker]

as a new player i am completely opposed to this
i'm not intimidated by any of y'all and being separated from the veterans would mean i'd have no reason to learn how any of you play

[thesunfan]

I can get behind letting people skip jTWG if they want to, but if they want to learn the game in a smaller setting I guess its not the worst thing in the world to allow them to do so.

[cedolad]

Originally Posted by lurker

as a new player i am completely opposed to this
i'm not intimidated by any of y'all and being separated from the veterans would mean i'd have no reason to learn how any of you play

You wouldn't be separated from vets, half of the roster would be veterans. Its just be in a small setting and geared towards coaching new players. For example in this environment, it wouldn't be bad to explain to a new player that you think another is a role and lynching them isn't okay. Or something like that. Something that you normally wouldn't mention in-game would be more acceptable just for the sake of learning.

I think with this idea it would help newer players jump into a game without feeling intimidated.

[FictionJunction]

NO CASTE SYSTeM

[FictionJunction]

Also two things: we don't have enough players for two games to be run simultaneously. We already know that. Two, we don't need to label games jtwg. Three, if we want simpler games we can choose to host them as a community without feeling like we're playing super cool professional level twg because it's really not a reason to get a hardon guys seriously. Four, FUCK THE KING. five, nobody wants to play seer/guard games. SiX, why do we think the new players are feeling intimidated ( I have t seen that and can't link it to the alleged complexity of our current games ) seven, if players are feeling intimidated as you claim make them feel not intimidated you play twg use your skillz

[FictionJunction]

We don't need to hold players hands - if you guys want people to learn how to play well then play as you normally would and reinforce lessons learned in post game. Learning happens in post game.

[FictionJunction]

Even this thread is twg

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

Also two things: we don't have enough players for two games to be run simultaneously. We already know that.

we do have enough players for two smaller games.

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

Two, we don't need to label games jtwg.

fair

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

Three, if we want simpler games we can choose to host them as a community without feeling like we're playing super cool professional level twg because it's really not a reason to get a hardon guys seriously.

it's only partly about the setup. where people would normally be yelling WHAT ARE YOU DOING at someone not claiming a role or voting to kill a claimed blue or something like that (both during the game and in the postgame), in one of these a vet should be prepared to explain certain things and play the game without blowing a gasket. I know to you that doesn't matter but maybe it matters for some.

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

five, nobody wants to play seer/guard games.

right those should never be run. there are a lot of ways to fix that kind of setup.

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

SiX, why do we think the new players are feeling intimidated ( I have t seen that and can't link it to the alleged complexity of our current games )

see:

Originally Posted by ___________

If there's a jTWG I'd be more than happy to participate in it. Us newer players need to gain experience in order to be good at these types of games.

Originally Posted by igotrhythm

Bring back the Junior TWGs. This way people new to the game or people that aren't quite up to par can still enjoy themselves. I hold no delusions that a jTWG will be any less cutthroat and brutal than a normal one, but the plays and strategies will be a bit less involved.

Originally Posted by justin_ator

I myself am one of those people that would probably be interested enough to check it out if there was a more new-player-friendly version of the game going.

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

seven, if players are feeling intimidated as you claim make them feel not intimidated you play twg use your skillz

wouldn't the best way be to accommodate for them? which is what this is about

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

We don't need to hold players hands - if you guys want people to learn how to play well then play as you normally would and reinforce lessons learned in post game. Learning happens in post game.

I agree but if new players want to get a few games branded as "easy mode" or "lower consequences" first why not let them? in dailymafia I wanted to get a couple games under my belt where it wouldn't matter as much to people who take the game really really seriously if I fucked up in the game or did something that led to a reroll or something like that. I think having the option makes sense.

[dAnceguy117]

new players know what they want. imo say your piece but ask them what they want.

[T-Force]

Speaking as someone with a few games of TWG under my belt, I would like to not only see this, but play in one.
A simpler game would be helpful, and I'd like to play with people around my skill level. I always feel like not saying too much and not being much of a leader, per se, because I feel newer and not as confident in my play and playing this I think would benefit me, as well as others with my experience.


//2cents

[FictionJunction]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

new players know what they want. imo say your piece but ask them what they want.

Isn't that the point of the host sign up phase and the game voting thread?

We don't need to institutionalize anything because we already can do these things. Once you institutionalize it it will not go the way you want it to.

[FictionJunction]

So let's say people want simpler games ( I like simple games ) then someone should ask for it, someone should offer to build and host one, and most people should vote to play it.

Do you want to institutionalize simple games? Well, if you do when most players want to play ridiculous games I would sit out nobody is going to play the simple games and we'll be back here talking about jtwg again.

We already have the ability to cater to this group - we just have to host a game and it has to be voted for

There's nothing to fix here.

[Charu]

Heh, it feels like we've been doing nothing but complex (figure these roles out) games.

Next voting thread, I'm definitely going to vote for something with nothing special attached to it.

[FictionJunction]

I mean if you guys want to reinstate the caste system go ahead.

Here's the problem: if we run two games simultaneously separating the player base we won't have enough players - if people want to play a 20 man game we won't have room for another twig. It's not that I want to play a game like that - having the option is important, it's part of the voting process. If you institutionalize it we won't have options.

If you don't institutionalize it you run he risk of hosting simple games at the whims of the players - can't guarantee you'll have them.

I don't think there's a happy medium that does not involve separating players into groups and if you're going to do that I wouldn't want games I'm interested in playing be affected by a need to fill games on either side of the table, siphoning experienced players from interesting games to fit a need that was artificially manufactured.

Both parties won't be happy, doesn't matter what you do.

[igotrhythm]

There is a third option.

If you get more people involved in TWG by offering to run simple or beginner-level games, then the player base might expand to the point that you CAN run large games and still have enough players left for a simple jtwig.

[dAnceguy117]

how is it a caste system if everyone can choose which games to play in?

look at what those in favor are saying. it doesn't seem to me like "simple games" is the focal point.

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by igotrhythm

There is a third option.

If you get more people involved in TWG by offering to run simple or beginner-level games, then the player base might expand to the point that you CAN run large games and still have enough players left for a simple jtwig.

I don't really know what the interest level is, and I'm not too convinced that running these jtwg things would buff the numbers that greatly, but I guess we wouldn't know until we tried.

are you asking for simple games? if you are, then I would agree with fiction. we can just vote to play simple games if that's what we want to play.

[FictionJunction]

if simple games aren't the issue then it's the roster. If you guys want to host jtwigs I guess I don't see a problem with that as long as there are no ceilings. Meaning, jwtig players can opt to play in games we vote for and the jtwigs we create for them, yeah?

The problem with player segmentation was how players had to be approved to play 'real twigs.' I find this to be ridiculous and unfriendly.

The better way to approach this would be to prevent players from going downwards - as in, preventing experienced players from playing in jtwigs that are designed for people to get their toes wet.

say we have a list of jtwig players we update as they feel they've outgrown the stage and they opt out to let others in. Limit the jtwg roster to about 21 (that's one 9 player game and one 12 player or one 16 player game) and then as new interest comes in jtwig players who have played enough jtwigs to feel comfortable can opt out of the roster and never play those games again..!!!

If you want to help people move up you've got to let them play on their own. I think the difficulty players have with twig has a lot less to do with game types than it does with comfort. And we can be intimidating although there's like no reason for players to feel intimidated. But whatever. If they want to duke it out comfortably then separate them, don't let experienced players interfere and allow them to graduate by opting out.

[FictionJunction]

in that regard I feel jtwig can work - you just have to find new players through CC or TGB. But under no circumstances should experienced players be allowed to play in them. It siphons the players we need from games we need to fill and it ruins the experimental learning stage the jtwig is suppose to cater to