Get owned, Romney

[Reincarnate]

Just because someone is poor and struggling doesn't mean they're dumb/lazy leechers, and just because someone is rich and successful doesn't mean they did it all on their own without significant support pillars. The "welfare queen" is just a rhetoric device and is by no means even a remotely accurate representation of the norm. It's just fallacious, polarizing imagery used to turn people against their own financial interests.

[Aldentron]

Originally Posted by Coolboyrulez0

Precisely.
You obviously have your big blue states (Cali), and big red states (Texas)...

huh? last i heard, cali was a red state thanks to the suits in orange county.

Originally Posted by Crazyjayde

I know this is off topic, but I'd actually want to hear some of your input on the hatewagon going on against Obama. Coming from a Canadian province I don't quite grasp the main motive behind this, can someone clear it up for me? Just want your personal opinion.

Then again I try to stray afar from U.S. politics.

hatemongering is a tried-and-true campaign strategy. Republicans haven't made heavy use of it in the past several elections because the person running for the Democratic Party (Kerry, Gore) was white. I think they feel as though enough of America is still subconciously racist enough to hate a black man for no reason, so they try to make it happen.

Outside of politics, hatemongering often is disguised as patriotism. "Support our troops while they kill villagers overseas because we hate those terrorist sunsuvbitches!"

[Reincarnate]

A lot of it is also misinformation -- trying to pin negative things on Obama that aren't his doing while trying to diminish credit for things he does well (Paul Ryan's RNC speech is loaded to the brim with examples of these). You've also got tons of Republican obstructionism/sabotage when it comes to legislation, aimed at making Obama look bad and/or ineffective (some good examples here being the debt ceiling crisis or the NDAA poison pill).

edit: aldentron: Cali is a blue state

[adlp]

your thread title is embarassing dude. you're probably that chronic sensationalist poster on facebook that your friends hide from their news feed rofl.

im glad Romney's standing by his statement too

Originally Posted by Bynary Fission

Just one Political Science major's opinion.

lolo youre 19 and probably in poli sci 201 lmao everybody listen to this guy he has a government textbook!!!!!

Originally Posted by kommisar

America's voting system is retarded to start with lol

i semi agree i want a facelift of the electoral college

Originally Posted by Crazyjayde

I know this is off topic, but I'd actually want to hear some of your input on the hatewagon going on against Obama. Coming from a Canadian province I don't quite grasp the main motive behind this, can someone clear it up for me? Just want your personal opinion.

Then again I try to stray afar from U.S. politics.

some of us dont like the half-assed healthcare overhaul (we need a better overhaul), the out of control spending ($16 trillion in debt from the $10.6 trillion on inauguration day) his economic failure of increased unemployment, failed bailouts and inabilitiy to clean up Bush's "mess" (which the democrats actually made themselves with more of their out of control spending during the latter years of Bush's term). he's also the food stamp president, which increased from 32 million recipients on inauguration day to 47 million present day. and his handling of foreign policy... jerusalem isnt the capital of israel? cancel a meeting with the israeli PM to go party and attend more fundraisers? apologize for free speech causing protests in the middle east? (this was later redacted because the white house realized that was stupid of them). israel is a key ally to the US and he's just blowing them off.

crazyjayde, almost everybody you see on the internet is going to spew liberal ideas all over the internet uncontested. remember that an overwhelming majority of the internet is full of retards, ex: Reddit. do what i do and read into both sides into an issue before forming an opinion on it.

sorry for the triple post i mean quad post WOOPS

[kommisar]

if anyone votes for romney i'm deleting them from my songs folder

[Reincarnate]

adlp: out of curiosity. do you accept evolution as completely watertight truth? thoughts on global warming?

[Emanresu13]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

http://www.washingtonpost

http://www.nytimes

liberal reporting to back up liberal claims :/

not that they didn't make some good points

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Just because someone is poor and struggling doesn't mean they're dumb/lazy leechers, and just because someone is rich and successful doesn't mean they did it all on their own without significant support pillars. The "welfare queen" is just a rhetoric device and is by no means even a remotely accurate representation of the norm. It's just fallacious, polarizing imagery used to turn people against their own financial interests.

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

I've met someone who fits the description of welfare queen so incredibly accurately it erased any doubt in my mind such people DO exist and DO completely remorselessly leech off the system at the expense of hardworking people.

both of these are true

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

That said, I sincerely doubt such people comprise 47% of America and 100% of Obama voters.
Really Romney, you could have been a little more eloquent there lmao
I'm pretty sure you can safely bash society's leeches without instantly alienating another, say, 46% of America...

this is well said


guys, just face it. romney watches too much foxnews

[devonin]

Originally Posted by adlp

israel is a key ally to the US and he's just blowing them off.

Key ally? Are they the US ally in charge of invading other countries and desperately begging for military and economic support?

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by Emanresu13

liberal reporting to back up liberal claims :/

not that they didn't make some good points

feel free to point out which aspects of the articles you disagree with and why if you think they are overly biased/skewed.

[adlp]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

adlp: out of curiosity. do you accept evolution as completely watertight truth? thoughts on global warming?

yeah i think evolution is awesome. global warming is a different story though, i feel that increased human activity has contributed to earth's climate right now but i feel that it doesnt have as much impact as some people say it does, the earth's average temperatures seem to fluctuate in cycles, like inbetween ice ages and such.

honestly i havent looked into global warming that much because of how little it affects me

[adlp]

Originally Posted by devonin

Key ally? Are they the US ally in charge of invading other countries and desperately begging for military and economic support?

going to class right now but i'll answer you when i get back Big Dev

[Ohaider]

god bless half of america

[kommisar]

I don't think people know enough about climate change to be making radical assumptions. Read an interesting article in Wired magazine which mentioned the very issue, saying how things aren't going to change for a very very long time.


But politicians love to use this as part of their platform cuz it makes them look like the good guys.

[j-rodd123]

Not to mention that scientists getting funding in the area of global warming research are getting paid for results that indicate omg yes planet is doomed!!!! But there have been so many papers with flawed calculations in the area of global warming it is just getting ridiculous

[Emanresu13]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

feel free to point out which aspects of the articles you disagree with and why if you think they are overly biased/skewed.

i should have said "publications" instead of "reporting". both sources are left-leaning. don't know about the third. didn't read it, either.

the nytimes article was very good, actually.

Romney’s comments also reveal that he has lost any sense of the social compact. In 1987, during Ronald Reagan’s second term, 62 percent of Republicans believed that the government has a responsibility to help those who can’t help themselves. Now, according to the Pew Research Center, only 40 percent of Republicans believe that.

The Republican Party, and apparently Mitt Romney, too, has shifted over toward a much more hyperindividualistic and atomistic social view — from the Reaganesque language of common citizenship to the libertarian language of makers and takers. There’s no way the country will trust the Republican Party to reform the welfare state if that party doesn’t have a basic commitment to provide a safety net for those who suffer for no fault of their own.

imo, an ideal government should not be performing these functions. with the way society is, we obviously can't just gut every social program. many of them are necessary, though they shouldn't be.

the w.post article was harsh, haha. used an image from the heritage foundation, i found that to be amusing. the government's handing of "tax cuts" and such is very stupid. the way taxes work in this country is very stupid. deductions and blah blah.

[Pseudo Enigma]

hint: "global warming" is the keyword for America dying


lolwat. Seriously I wish there was someone running that wasn't a dingus. Us Canaderps have to worry about your politics too

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

http://www.businessinsider.com/mitt-...-states-2012-9

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...rss_ezra-klein

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/op...ll-romney.html

I'm frankly not interested in who or what XYZ random journalist is blaming the existence of welfare queens on. All I know is that they do exist, so the people who are all "waaah welfare queens is conservative propaganda everyone is a saint" are just as full of shit as Romney is lol
I general I agree with a pretty moderate point of view on government handouts. I agree the government should have the responsibility to provide a safety net for those in need. I disagree with how the government currently defines "in need" for example putting way too much emphasis on the elderly and end-of-life palliative care. I also believe said safety net should degrade at a rate proportional to how practical it is for said person to live without the safety net, and I put an emphasis on live without... NOT live comfortably without. I have a problem with funding some random lazy ass's gambling binges, yes.
On one hand, ambition in the unemployed and needy is fueled by a sense of possibility, not deprivation. On the other hand, ambition in those who are currently successful is dampened by reducing the reward for remaining successful (taxes), a fact that many people seem to conveniently forget when arguing for greater unemployment and welfare spending. Unemployment programs should act as an automatic economic stabilizer, rising and more importantly falling according to the needs of the labor industry. Unfortunately in practice, once people have benefits they are loathe to give them up and will game the system as much as possible to continue receiving them well beyond the point where it is economically wise and socially responsible to do so. I advocate a system that provides a safety net where needed, but also has a very well-defined system for eroding that safety net over time.


Concluding comments: honestly I'm going to write-in Mickey Mouse or some other bullshit for president this year. As far as I'm concerned voting for either major party candidate at all is a vote of confidence in the godawful American political system.
I love to think and discuss the theory behind how a country should be governed, but the amount of ****s I give about the way America has put such theories into practice is precisely equal to zero.

Obama and Romney are both terrible candidates, for different reasons. I'm pretty sure throwing a dart at a big board with every American's name and whoever it lands on is president for 4 years would result in a better president than Obama or Romney could ever hope to be.

[Reincarnate]

sooooo, you make a point, I give you a data-backed response that shows why your point is disingenuous/incomplete/misleading, and your response is "lol i don't care"

cool man

[virus003]

Originally Posted by Aldentron

huh? last i heard, cali was a red state thanks to the suits in orange county.

Orange county is relatively republican due to the fact that in SoCal there's so many small businesses around here. But CA is infact a blue state

[gnr61]

i'd check some stats on the proportion of entitlement recipients who are unemployed and comfortably gorging their lazy asses by abusing the system--it *is* propaganda, and worrying so much about what 'welfare queens' are doing with your tax dollars is pretty silly. no, it's not "everybody's a saint." it's "the VAST majority of these folks are employed or striving for employment, and need these security nets to stay on their feet."

i can't bring myself to get worked up about a random gambler somewhere in the country who might be having fun with his welfare check when there's a working-class mom with an autistic kid who will be badly hurt by severe entitlement cuts in the name of 'showing those takers we're not gonna baby em no more.'