My GTS Story (Need opinion/argument)

[devonin]

if we're allowed to swap vet titles upon request (at the cost of wiping your gps and gts,) why can't one guy swap 5 times the requirement

The first veteran account wasn't shut down for CHEATING.

[qqwref]

Devonin, you seem very emotional about this and I don't really understand why. It's almost like you're personally offended that Hakulyte could possibly consider a years-old cheating offense as forgivable.

[NeoMasterPie]

just goes to show that arrow smashing is serious ****ing business y'all

[Pseudo Enigma]

Why is this such a bad thing that he cheated? He already understands that he is NOT supposed to cheat, which is what is what you guys wanted when you placed the rules. Rules are in place to enforce guidelines of how a site should be run. In other words, rules are the way of the admins holding every user's hands and telling them what it is okay to do and what they want the user to do. Since Hakulyte obviously understands what it meant when he cheated, and has actually repayed the community in various ways, I think that he has learned his lesson. If he hadn't, he would've hopped right on alt after alt after alt and cheated the hell out of this game until he got an IP ban and etc.

What I think is not the same thing as what the admins of this site think, and I do understand this, but I wish they would reconsider.

When a user cheats for a score, it is wiped from the level's highscore table and such, right? Hakulyte has wiped his account MANY times as he has said. His cheated score(s) are long gone now. All that remains is the score that he got from the game, which obviously isn't some ludicrous amount, otherwise his scores would've been wiped a long time ago too.

He had his cheated stuff removed from the game and that is all the penance that was required from him in a fair situation. The games that he did play legitimately from then on had been on his alternate account, until he had regained access to his main. So in a fair situation I would think that the scores that he obtained legitimately would be the only ones he should have any right to adding or moving, or whatever the heck he wishes to request.

Why can't you guys just admit it and say you just don't want to because it feels bad or something. It's literally not because it's about fair and unfair, since he did learn from it, and he has had his cheated scores removed. Now it's just a case of "we don't want to" or something. I understand you aren't his pet, and he doesn't have any right to bark around, but what he is requesting is legitimate and fair.

Just remember who's mouth this is coming from. I'm the guy who said that this is a game that shouldn't be taken anywhere at all too seriously.

Stop this damn thing here for crying out loud, the community is sick of it, and probably more than the community, the people involved are sick of it. If someone like me, a representative of the community has to step in and try to convince you guys to reconsider, then I think it's gone far enough. Stop sitting on the fence with it and decide. Do something to finalize this.

[top]

I think it's fairly clear that many from this community are behind Hakulyte. This forum must be a type of dictatorship if the Administrators haven't given in by now, because all of the reasonable arguments have been made and there just isn't anything to say anymore.

Good luck in your trial Hakulyte.

[Partisan]

So because of the fact that his scores weren't erased after being unblacklisted, you feel like the scores that were got through cheating are still there, and that's what is really stopping you from combining his GTS? That was a mistake on the staff's side though, and it's not exactly something you can go back and change. It wasn't Haku's fault if his scores weren't reset, but he's also a well known member, not just some random guy on the block. This is way too trivial to even matter, just give the guy his GTS and get it over with.

EDIT: And honestly, who really cares about GTS anyway? The only time anyone would ever have something to say about GTS is during a discussion like this. If it were any other thread, I really doubt someone would be walking around and bragging about their GTS. That's just silly. Still +1 to giving him the combined scores.

[Pseudo Enigma]

Originally Posted by Partisan

EDIT: And honestly, who really cares about GTS anyway? The only time anyone would ever have something to say about GTS is during a discussion like this. If it were any other thread, I really doubt someone would be walking around and bragging about their GTS. That's just silly. Still +1 to giving him the combined scores.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/FFRTop1000.php

This is the only reason it matters.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Devonin, you seem very emotional about this and I don't really understand why. It's almost like you're personally offended that Hakulyte could possibly consider a years-old cheating offense as forgivable.

I'm not emotional about the issue at hand at all. I barely know or care to know Haku personally. I'm annoyed at the way the situation is being and has been handled, especially when the decision isn't even a decision, just the continuation of 8 years of policy.

Clearly the offence was forgiveable, Haku is playing and logging scores on Haku. What the offence isn't, is something he should end up -gaining- by.

That he even got to keep the GTS obtained through cheating in the first place is something I think was a mistake, but we're long past stuck with that one. I'm just not going to let him gain from cheating.

[Pseudo Enigma]

This isn't even gaining from cheating. If it were, he'd still have all his cheated scores.

[Reincarnate]

I understand where dev is coming from -- I really do. Haku has already been granted much leeway (being able to play on another account after being blacklisted AND having his original account unblacklisted later), so why grant him more leeway by combining his stats?

This isn't the US Legal System or something where bending a rule for someone/making arbitrary exceptions has rather serious ramifications. This is a community-run Flash game site where you mash arrows. Seriously. Bring everyone back to Earth here for a moment.

The letter of the law in this context is important because you need SOME standard for dealing with cheaters, but why? The spirit of the law: Maintaining integrity of the game. Otherwise you get your average run-of-the-mill hackers who cheat and then have no incentive to stop. Haku made a mistake, and he's clearly apologized for it and moved on to become an upstanding member we're all familiar with. He's not a cheater, so I don't think we need to treat him like one, especially since he's accomplished some impressive GTS feats worthy of the exception.

In other words, I prefer "rehabilitation" to outright punishment, and based on the spirit of the law here I don't think it's worth holding Haku's feet to the fire regarding pedantic interpretations of the blacklist rules.

Just combine the scores. It doesn't mean you have to make exceptions for anyone else who asks to have scores combined. Just make it an explicit rule. If someone asks, "But, but, Hakulyte..." just mention that it was an exceptional case and move on.

If someone furrows their brow at that and goes, "I'll show them! I'll become an awesome community member too so they'll have to grant my wish!"... you're really going to look at that as a BAD thing? :P

[virus003]

Originally Posted by devonin

I'm just not going to let him gain from cheating.

Remind me why this thread is still open then

[devonin]

It's combining the GTS he earned while cheating, with the GTS he earned while evading his blacklist by playing on another account, solely on the grounds of "I got given the chance to log scores on my main again"

[DossarLX ODI]

From what it looks like here, staff gives a bunch of "no" responses, this still continues for over a year and gives the community headache.

Really, something needs to be put in place to talk about "special cases" or whatever. This way there isn't a bunch of crap over a trivial matter like this and instead it can be solved within a matter of minutes.

The reason why I mention this is because I'm here with my scores intact, achieved on this account all the way from zero still, just like how Hakulyte made Etylukah and then started from zero grandtotal on that. I was blacklisted on ffdfadsdasd, and I was forced to make a new account. Thing is I was never unblacklisted on ffdfadsdasd, but Hakulyte was unblacklisted -- yet I still have my scores on this account, even though I never asked for transfers.

A more efficient method of dealing with trivial matters like this is needed.

[Pseudo Enigma]

... honestly you have some sort of justice boner going for this situation devonin. Much respect and all.. I think you're being blind right now

edit: a great portion of the community thinks this is fair, and yet the admins don't think they should agree with this.
Inb4 another ****ing fad of "freekommi"-esque spam messages to add the scores together.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

I understand where dev is coming from -- I really do. Haku has already been granted much leeway (being able to play on another account after being blacklisted AND having his original account unblacklisted later), so why grant him more leeway by combining his stats?

This isn't the US Legal System or something where bending a rule for someone/making arbitrary exceptions has rather serious ramifications. This is a community-run Flash game site where you mash arrows. Seriously. Bring everyone back to Earth here for a moment.

The letter of the law in this context is important because you need SOME standard for dealing with cheaters, but why? The spirit of the law: Maintaining integrity of the game. Otherwise you get your average run-of-the-mill hackers who cheat and then have no incentive to stop. Haku made a mistake, and he's clearly apologized for it and moved on to become an upstanding member we're all familiar with. He's not a cheater, so I don't think we need to treat him like one, especially since he's accomplished some impressive GTS feats worthy of the exception.

In other words, I prefer "rehabilitation" to outright punishment, and based on the spirit of the law here I don't think it's worth holding Haku's feet to the fire regarding pedantic interpretations of the blacklist rules.

Just combine the scores. It doesn't mean you have to make exceptions for anyone else who asks to have scores combined. Just make it an explicit rule. If someone asks, "But, but, Hakulyte..." just mention that it was an exceptional case and move on.

If someone furrows their brow at that and goes, "I'll show them! I'll become an awesome community member too so they'll have to grant my wish!"... you're really going to look at that as a BAD thing? :P

How is failing to change our standing rules "holding his feet to the fire" ??

Getting back on his old account, in the GTS state where he left it was already a beneficial, positive result because of his contributions. He is ALREADY ahead of the game. I can see no reason to grant him this request. And just because you've magically decided that this wouldn't open the door to more issues doesn't make it so.

A more efficient method of dealing with trivial matters like this is needed.

"We don't combine score/stat elements of multiple accounts"

There. Clear, efficient.

[virus003]

Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma

... honestly you have some sort of justice boner going for this situation devonin. Much respect and all.. I think you're being blind right now

No offense but he's right, and I know you have doubt that everyone else might just be right devonin, you're being way to close minded about strictly following the rules, this is a forum, not an olympic game, relax

[Trogdor!!!!]

Can we either give him his points or not give him his points and lock this thread

[devonin]

Originally Posted by virus003

Remind me why this thread is still open then

Because, unlike all of these apparent accusations, I was intending to leave the discussion open to further offering of opinions and positions.

I guess if I'm being branded some sort of crazy iron-fist person while I'm in the middle of actively encouraging dissenting opinions, I might as well just roll with it?

"Haku: No."

Done.

[Sprite-]

Personally, I would never combine scores between two different accounts. People have asked before and the answer has always been no. I'm not going to start opening up the exceptions.

Edit: Oh didn't realize this was locked. Sorry.