The Political Game: Abortion/Murder

makaveli121212 · 12-13-2003, 07:14 PM

so this guy is pissed and kills his wife and unbrn child...and guess what? hes charged for, 2, yes 2 murders...but wait when a woman kills her unborn child, its legal, and unpunishable...your thoughts

Anticrombie0909 · 12-13-2003, 07:32 PM

Hmm...that's actually a good topic. I'll adress each one separately.

I don't believe abortion is murder. First off, there's a limit to how late you can do it, so you abort two days after conception you're just stopping a bunch of cells from growing. You shed thousands of dead skin cells a day, and kill thousands more, so unless you want to count all of them as murders also...
Plus, look at abortion this way. Say a mother gets pregnant and doesn't abort, but can't afford another baby. So she either abandons the baby after its born to die (worse), leads it in a life of poverty and sickness (worse) or in extreme situations, sells it to an organ farm or something (much worse).

As for the murder of them, I'm assuming at the time of death the baby was nearly complete in its growth, in which case it would have the first inklings of conciousness, but beyond that its what it might have been that matters. The baby would have been born, and would have lead a life, so technically its still killing.

willson13 · 12-13-2003, 07:34 PM

Wow. So many different opinions on this one. Here goes.

Honestly, I disagree with abortion. If the woman is careless enough to sleep around, she needs to be aware that when a SPERM meets an EGG there is a BABY. If she can't handle that, then maybe more than one condom is necessary. I don't really consider myself a very religious person, so I'm not taking this from a religious standpoint, but we all have morals, and one of mine is to NOT kill an unborn child if it's not wanted.

Anticrombie0909 · 12-13-2003, 07:35 PM

What if the woman is responsible, though? What if she did use a condom, and it was with her husband, but the condom broke? She's not being careless, but she can't afford a baby. What then?

willson13 · 12-13-2003, 07:37 PM

It depends on the stage of the baby within the womb.

willson13 · 12-13-2003, 07:37 PM

Like you said, it it's just some embryo, do whatever the hell you want with it, but an actual fetus? That's just, ewwww.

jewpinthethird · 12-13-2003, 07:39 PM

Or what if the woman was raped? What then?

Until you have seen the results of an unwanted child born into a family who is barely getting by, you have no right to say anything.

"Keep your Rosaries off my ovaries."

Anticrombie0909 · 12-13-2003, 07:39 PM

That's why there are laws against aborting after the first cycle of the pregnancy unless it endangers the mother's health, or some other circumstance that would require abortion.

makaveli121212 · 12-13-2003, 07:39 PM

i dont know the specifics of the case...i should have known before i posted, but i can look it up...but to say that it would have a life, isnt right, i mean an aborted child would have a life too...what you are syaing makes sense that if a family cannot economically support the child. but what if they can, they still have a right to an abortion...yes you are stopping cells form growing, well not grwoing, multiplying...but you dont abort two days after conception...its ussually around, someone help me out here, 3 months...the baby is cut out of the womb and stabbed in the back of the head...also that poor mother could always put him/her up for adoption...in my mind everyone has the right to live, and so does each baby, born or uborn i dont care...killing is murder...if that man is charged for two murders, then so should every woman that has gotten an abortion

willson13 · 12-13-2003, 07:40 PM

If she's raped, put it up for adoption. I know that most adoption agencies don't really need more kids, but it's better than killing them. But if they can support a kid, there's no reason to abort.

Anticrombie0909 · 12-13-2003, 07:42 PM

But if its nothing but a few cells, its not really killing anything since it doesn't have a concious mind of any sort. And like you said, we don't need more starving, poverty-ridden kids filling up adoption agencies when there's only so many parents out there to take them.

makaveli121212 · 12-13-2003, 07:43 PM

you cant detect and remove only a few cells it is impossible, what you are talking about is ludacris

willson13 · 12-13-2003, 07:44 PM

Yeah, I agree with the cell thing. Like Anti said with that analogy, which btw was a very nice one, we kill more than just a few cells every day. It's not necessarily impossible. After all, it's going to be in the uterus (sp), we all know that, it may be a little hard to find, but if you let it develop just a little while longer, it'll be possible.

makaveli121212 · 12-13-2003, 07:46 PM

don you get it, abortions dont take place early in the pregnancy, ever

Anticrombie0909 · 12-13-2003, 07:47 PM

Except...they actually do. They have a thing called the 'morning after' pill, which aborts the pregnancy if taken within two days of unprotected sex.

willson13 · 12-13-2003, 07:47 PM

Not certain types of abortions. And like I said, if you let it develop enough to actually see it, you can get rid of it before it's actually "human like".

makaveli121212 · 12-13-2003, 07:48 PM

Anticrombie0909 · 12-13-2003, 07:49 PM

Jesus and black magic.

It's possible, I know that much.

jewpinthethird · 12-13-2003, 07:50 PM

Whether you like it or not, abortion will always be an option. Whether it is right or wrong, will find out in the afterlife.

Just remember back to when abortion was outlawed. Hundreds of mothers were killed in home made abortion clinics.

willson13 · 12-13-2003, 07:52 PM

That's just like everything else. We can't outlaw it for that reason. Just like the Prohibition, people never quit doing it. I DO think it's wrong, but I DON'T think it should be illegal.

12-13-2003, 07:32 PM	#2
Anticrombie0909 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,683	Hmm...that's actually a good topic. I'll adress each one separately. I don't believe abortion is murder. First off, there's a limit to how late you can do it, so you abort two days after conception you're just stopping a bunch of cells from growing. You shed thousands of dead skin cells a day, and kill thousands more, so unless you want to count all of them as murders also... Plus, look at abortion this way. Say a mother gets pregnant and doesn't abort, but can't afford another baby. So she either abandons the baby after its born to die (worse), leads it in a life of poverty and sickness (worse) or in extreme situations, sells it to an organ farm or something (much worse). As for the murder of them, I'm assuming at the time of death the baby was nearly complete in its growth, in which case it would have the first inklings of conciousness, but beyond that its what it might have been that matters. The baby would have been born, and would have lead a life, so technically its still killing.

12-13-2003, 07:34 PM	#3
willson13 FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Like, whoa. Posts: 72	Wow. So many different opinions on this one. Here goes. Honestly, I disagree with abortion. If the woman is careless enough to sleep around, she needs to be aware that when a SPERM meets an EGG there is a BABY. If she can't handle that, then maybe more than one condom is necessary. I don't really consider myself a very religious person, so I'm not taking this from a religious standpoint, but we all have morals, and one of mine is to NOT kill an unborn child if it's not wanted.

12-13-2003, 07:35 PM	#4
Anticrombie0909 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,683	What if the woman is responsible, though? What if she did use a condom, and it was with her husband, but the condom broke? She's not being careless, but she can't afford a baby. What then?

12-13-2003, 07:37 PM	#5
willson13 FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Like, whoa. Posts: 72	It depends on the stage of the baby within the womb.

12-13-2003, 07:39 PM	#7
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	Or what if the woman was raped? What then? Until you have seen the results of an unwanted child born into a family who is barely getting by, you have no right to say anything. "Keep your Rosaries off my ovaries."

12-13-2003, 07:40 PM	#10
willson13 FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Like, whoa. Posts: 72	If she's raped, put it up for adoption. I know that most adoption agencies don't really need more kids, but it's better than killing them. But if they can support a kid, there's no reason to abort.

12-13-2003, 07:42 PM	#11
Anticrombie0909 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,683	But if its nothing but a few cells, its not really killing anything since it doesn't have a concious mind of any sort. And like you said, we don't need more starving, poverty-ridden kids filling up adoption agencies when there's only so many parents out there to take them.

12-13-2003, 07:44 PM	#13
willson13 FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Like, whoa. Posts: 72	Yeah, I agree with the cell thing. Like Anti said with that analogy, which btw was a very nice one, we kill more than just a few cells every day. It's not necessarily impossible. After all, it's going to be in the uterus (sp), we all know that, it may be a little hard to find, but if you let it develop just a little while longer, it'll be possible.

12-13-2003, 07:47 PM	#15
Anticrombie0909 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,683	Except...they actually do. They have a thing called the 'morning after' pill, which aborts the pregnancy if taken within two days of unprotected sex.

12-13-2003, 07:49 PM	#18
Anticrombie0909 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,683	Jesus and black magic. It's possible, I know that much.

12-13-2003, 07:50 PM	#19
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	Whether you like it or not, abortion will always be an option. Whether it is right or wrong, will find out in the afterlife. Just remember back to when abortion was outlawed. Hundreds of mothers were killed in home made abortion clinics.

12-13-2003, 07:52 PM	#20
willson13 FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Like, whoa. Posts: 72	That's just like everything else. We can't outlaw it for that reason. Just like the Prohibition, people never quit doing it. I DO think it's wrong, but I DON'T think it should be illegal.

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