Moore, OK tornado

[Spenner]

Pray for global warming

Pray for toonie tuesdays at KFc

Pray for toes

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by xNiX

You make it sound like the people who have been praying for Oklahoma did something wrong.

They actually did do something wrong. or, to phrase it better, they didn't do anything at all, and if they think they did, THEN they are utterly wrong.

If one really cared he/she could take part in relief efforts or find donation channels to support the people affected by the disaster. Don't have a problem with those who emphatize through prayer, and i'm sure praying and sending help aren't mutually exclusive, but after a disaster these people don't need your pity, they need actual help. That is basically what really bothered me and others in the first post.

Anyway i'm glad the death toll has lowered. goddamn, that tornado must have been incredibly powerful.

[xNiX]

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus

They actually did do something wrong. or, to phrase it better, they didn't do anything at all, and if they think they did, THEN they are utterly wrong.

Actually, last time I checked, praying is actually doing something. But, anyways, this is about what's actually going on in the area.

If you actually lived in the area, you would know that we have plenty of help as it is. Last night, I was even rejected from helping because there were too many people willing to help. So before you guys quickly jump and go, "OMG PRAYER DOES NOTHING! WE NEED TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING!", we already have a plethora amount of bodies helping out the city each day. That includes the Navy, Air Force, Army, firefighters, contractors, PD, and civilians. People are even doing there part by donating large quantities of food and water to the people who have lost their homes. I couldn't even buy water from two different grocery stores because most of their stock is going to the people who need it after the tornado. Even OU is offering free housing for the people who need it.

And for the people here on FFR that are constantly saying praying does nothing nothing for the people of Moore and New Castle, why don't you send/donate something down here and stfu? I have a very strong vibe that none of you guys have done anything yourselves to help restore what was lost. Especially the ones who keep saying, "praying isn't doing anything." Take your own advice.

[Mollocephalus]

You don't understand. In a state of emergency, the first thing you should think about is not to pray, because it gets nothing done. You do shit, and if you want, you can pray afterwards. I'm not doubting your efforts and/or everyone else's, and i'm not making myself an example. I'm just stating how things are.

[Reincarnate]

As an atheist myself, all I can say is "Fuck, people, pick your battles more wisely."

I don't have a problem with people who pray. To me, it's not much different from someone who says, "My heart goes out to those affected -- I hope everyone pulls through alright."

AFAIK the beef that people have is when a religious person prays for someone during a tragedy and then acts like he/she helped or contributed in the same capacity as someone who actually did something tangible for the victim. This becomes trickier if we see big-name celebrities (or those with the power of voice/reach) telling people to pray (as opposed to donate), implying that that is a sufficient means of contribution in such a situation, detracting from the more pragmatic avenues of helpful response.

Does prayer make you less likely to donate compared to non-religious types? Is this sort of effect a big problem? I don't really know either way, so I can't really bring out the pitchfork just yet.

If you want to get people to donate, then get the word out there and ask people to donate. Attacking religious people on this front isn't going to suddenly make them donate if they haven't already, and it appears petty.

Now, people who praise God when science makes a breakthrough, or when natural disasters are blamed on homosexuals via God's wrath, or when the safe return of chronic rape victims are attributed to God's benevolence and ultimate plan, and so on and so forth -- then yeah, that shit is mad offensive and needs to be called out for the nonsense that it is. But in a situation like this? Ehhhhh. Too tenuous for my sensitivities.

[Xx{Fallen}xX]

This tornado happened only an hour or so away from where i live now. We got the same warning they did, but i couldnt imagine a tornado ripping apart my neighborhood in only 20 mins after that warning. Nature is scary.

[korny]

For those who believe in a collective consciousness and/or believe that through their intentions they can use prayer as a conduit for manifesting comfort or whatever logic they may or may not have formed over "the power of prayer", let them be. Do we really need to get so critical in our thinking about whether people praying is actually detrimental to this situation? My parents, being devout mormons are probably praying for those who lost loved ones in the hopes that they may find a little bit of light in their lives despite the overwhelming despair that faces them, and they do this because it is the only way in their immediate lives they feel they can help. My mom goes to India and Romania frequently to inspire orphaned children and then goes home and prays about them. In this immediate situation my mom can do no such thing so she prays because she feels it is better than not praying.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by korny

Do we really need to get so critical in our thinking about whether people praying is actually detrimental to this situation?

It becomes detrimental if too many people are praying in lieu of donating/helping in a tangible way. If my house catches fire, I don't want people to stand around and merely wish-me-the-best... I want them to get the damn water hose and quit perpetuating the societal meme that what they're doing is righteous and sufficient, especially if they're abusing power of influence to do it.

[Xiz]

Originally Posted by Xx{Fallen}xX

This tornado happened only an hour or so away from where i live now. We got the same warning they did, but i couldnt imagine a tornado ripping apart my neighborhood in only 20 mins after that warning. Nature is scary.

Glad you are okay Fallen. Hope all 'ya friends and family are safe.

I think this debate on religion is distracting us from the situation at hand.

Look, I pray because there is nothing I can do in Oklahoma, I'm too far away to help. During the floods / fires / shootings in Colorado I did what I could to help out my family, friends and even strangers. Regardless if it was doing relief work or being there for the deceased's family and friends, I did what was necessary. I find praying appropriate if there is nothing else I can do.

[Aldentron]

one of these days, perhaps we will see an end to the masturbatory logic that plagues both religion and activism; the idea that your thoughts are an appropriate enough substitute for action, the feeling of helplessness due to belief in whatever greater powers, corporate or holy, etc.

until then i continue to lambast and criticize anyone who believes that the "power of prayer" is anything more than just positive reinforcement and meditation.
that said, i'm all for positive reinforcement and meditation, and thus i'm all for prayer. but it's not anything near a panacea. shame on the false saints who purport it to be.

as for the rest of the topic, when downtown Fort Worth was ravaged by a tornado about a decade ago, the locals here talked amongst themselves about it for 2 or 3 days and we went back to business as usual, even though half of the skyscrapers had boarded windows for the next 2-3 years. there's really not much to talk about a tornado ripping through a town that the news stories and posters before you haven't said already, so quit crying that the topic has gone off on a religious tangent.

[korny]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

It becomes detrimental if too many people are praying in lieu of donating/helping in a tangible way. If my house catches fire, I don't want people to stand around and merely wish-me-the-best... I want them to get the damn water hose and quit perpetuating the societal meme that what they're doing is righteous and sufficient, especially if they're abusing power of influence to do it.

Which is why we shouldn't generalize and pick on the number of those who do pray and had the ability to help, when we can compare it to the much larger number of those who can't even be bothered to acknowledge the reality of that situation because they're too caught up in their own little world like the rest. Across the spectrum people are going to half ass their efforts in any sort of institution or belief system. I just don't get why we had to pick on those who took seconds out of their day to in some way acknowledge a desperate situation, regardless of whether it actually achieves any sort of thing. If anything, that collective momentary acknowledgement almost seems to create a ripple effect of action hence the massive church relief efforts you see in the south when these big tornadoes hit from time to time.

Anyway, I live right by fallen and was thinking the same thing about the storm. I couldn't imagine a storm coming through tearing asunder. It gets crazy enough here sometimes you could hear ambulance sirens for a straight hour non stop in my area str8 torrential downpour.

[xNiX]

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus

You don't understand. In a state of emergency, the first thing you should think about is not to pray, because it gets nothing done. You do shit, and if you want, you can pray afterwards. I'm not doubting your efforts and/or everyone else's, and i'm not making myself an example. I'm just stating how things are.

Maybe it's just me, but if I knew someone was praying for me, it gives me a sense of comfort. trust me..if i lost my house, my car, and my city, i would need some.

[TC_Halogen]

I was looking up information about the recent tornado, and my heart just sank. This tornado was an EF-5, but...

...the fastest wind-speed ever recorded in a tornado was 318 MPH, and... it too, was in Moore. To have to live through two EF-5 tornadoes within 15 years... I couldn't even imagine. My thoughts and condolences go out to everyone in the area.

[Ohaider]

'They could have saved the people from this inevitable instantaneous death inflicting weather disaster if only every single person in the area hadn't been praying. Prayer is solely to blame. Oh yeah and condolences to the families or w/e'


nice thread

related:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMF22_MEMJU

[Spenner]

But how do you stop a tornado from pulling apart your house even with other people coming down to help? I don't think you can fight off a tornado. If people weren't joining the path of the tornadoes destruction and decided to remain outside it whilst praying, I think they were making a smart move.

It's about what happens after the disaster not before/during Ohaider IMO ~_~ I mean what really can you do that's helpful while the tornado is still amok? Some people hope for the best, some people pray, but nobody is standing in front of the tornado with a shield and sword.

[xNiX]

Originally Posted by Ohaider

'They could have saved the people from this inevitable instantaneous death inflicting weather disaster if only every single person in the area hadn't been praying.

By far the most dumbest post I've seen in awhile.

[Ohaider]

Originally Posted by xNiX

By far the most dumbest post I've seen in awhile.

Lmfao how did you not pick up my sarcasm

Originally Posted by Ohaider

' '

Edit: Also

Respect, spenner

[blindreper1179]

Originally Posted by xNiX

Maybe it's just me, but if I knew someone was praying for me, it gives me a sense of comfort. trust me..if i lost my house, my car, and my city, i would need some.

It's just you.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by Ohaider

Lmfao how did you not pick up my sarcasm

But maybe.. it was double sarcasm.

[xNiX]

Originally Posted by Izzy

But maybe.. it was double sarcasm.

Exactly.