jTWG

[FictionJunction]

if you want a jTWG please say why below.

jTWG is an easy way to segment and segregate a community that benefits from everyone playing together. If you want simpler (ie fun) games then don't vote for stupidly complex games. A jTWG isn't a seer/guardian game and a TWG game isn't a random dive into BDN's terrible game ideas bucket. TWG is just people talking. If you can do that you can do TWG.

Things jTWG will not do for you:

teach you format in a way that a TWG game wouldn't
teach you to think in a way that a TWG game wouldn't
teach you strategy in a way that a TWG game wouldn't
teach you to play in a way that a TWG game wouldn't

Things jTWG will do:

make people think there's a 'difficulty' difference between jTWG and TWG
make people feel incapable playing against bitter vets
limit your potential

[j-rodd123]

don't care for jtwg

[FictionJunction]

we don't need a caste system

[j-rodd123]

im an untouchable

[Crazyjayde]

I'm not fond of running jTWG as of now but I'd be more inclined of hosting more accessible formats with simpler and rich mechanics. I think a vanilla game qualifies as a good introduction for fresh players. Just put a fixed newbie/veteran ratio for the signups, and there's your jTWG.
So just run two games at once, each assigned with a different level of complexity. Everyone will be able to subscribe to the game he's the most comfortable. All we need is more structure.

[FictionJunction]

why do we need to call it jTWG - a game isn't 'more' accessible if it isn't complicated, it's just complicated - which means it's a bad game.

[j-rodd123]

vanilla games are sexy

again my fav setup is either a vanilla 9er or 13er

9er:
6 villa
2 wolves
1 seer

seer gets a random n0 villa peek

13er
9 villa
3 wolves
1 seer

seer gets a true n0 peek of their choosing

no out of thread obv, and this is accessible by any skill or interest level. super pure and super fun says this guy

[j-rodd123]

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

why do we need to call it jTWG - a game isn't 'more' accessible if it isn't complicated, it's just complicated - which means it's a bad game.

agreed

[Crazyjayde]

I'm talking about a game with easier to understand mechanics, not necessarily a complex game. *nuance*

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Crazyjayde

So just run two games at once, each assigned with a different level of complexity.

I kind of like this as an unofficial rule. Maybe every other game could "forced" to be a "vanilla" variant.

And contrary to what Fiction says, simpler games are more accessible to newer players. I know a simple vanilla game is easier to grasp than one that has all kinds of weird RPG elements like grid-based locations or items or unique powers. I can't even wrap my head around some of that stuff very well.

[FictionJunction]

ya, they're like not fun or good so

[Charu]

I don't think a jTWG should exist.

A pure vanilla game (with no power role) is not a really a good way to introduce a new player I think, since so many TWG/Mafia setups rely on one or two power roles to make it have an interesting dynamic.

I'm pretty sure when a complex game goes through (As in one that introduces shit ton of roles and or 3rd party stuff) even the vets have to stop and ask "wtf is this shit?"

[j-rodd123]

that's because in addition to player analysis you have to approach the game from a mechanical aspect as well. takes a wide variety of skills, the vanillas I posted are obv the most elite tho 8)

[Silvuh]

It pleases me that the OP presents an unbiased dissection of the nuances inherent in both sides of the argument to help facilitate an impartial decision by the userbase in regards to his topic of contention.

I wasn't here around the time of jTWGs before, but ... if new players feel like they would benefit from playing a game or two with each other first, then a vet should host something for them. After reading the good arguments people have made for and against jTWGs elsewhere, I think participating in a jTWG shouldn't be a requirement, but the option should still be open.

The new players will either become more comfortable playing and start joining games with vets, realize that just playing with fellow new players won't help and go join games with everyone else, or decide the game just does not suit their personality and leave. Or something else. They could be stopped from unnecessarily sheltering themselves by limiting the number of jTWGs a player can join. Because, yeah, everyone has to start somewhere, but you have to experience things beyond your ability to be able to truly improve.

P.S. "TWG is just people talking" is a massive understatement. Some people can't handle the kind of "talking" that goes on when things get intense. (Sure, my skin would probably thicken if I continue playing, but the point stands.)

P.P.S. I'm defining "jTWG" as "a game with only less- or inexperienced players", not as "a vanilla game with no special roles", which I agree with Charu about.

[FictionJunction]

if you don't have enough people to separate two groups then you shouldn't separate two groups. We don't have enough 'jTWG players' to coop up in a room and have them play against one another. We don't have enough 'TWG players' to do the same either.

The answer is simple: stop hosting ridiculous games.

[FictionJunction]

it's just such a ridiculously unnecessary difference.

omg adding a red miller makes this a REAL TWG not a jTWG!

just help the new kids understand how the roles work if the issue is in mechanics, if it's not then they'll still have to talk to players regardless of what you choose to call a game. Point is, calling it jTWG creates an unnecessary barrier where none should be.

If you guys want to play games with complicated RPG elements, sure, but don't pretend it's a reserved game for 'experienced players' as if a traditional seer/guardian game wouldn't be.

[cedolad]

no

[Vendetta21]

Fiction is fiery hot with anger but I totally see his point it's so much better to have us all in one pool, eliminates the veteran status complex. Remember we're getting older and that silly status stuff tends to matter less as we age and we liked that shit in our teenage years but now if someone is struggling to get the game we have 30 vets who want to explain it passionately and just listen to them talk about TWG, please and there's a wiki and there's like 8 guides. And above all the character skills you actively work in TWG are gaining confidence with how you present yourself online and confidence in forming opinions about others and seeing how your thought processes can be totally wrong, which is best done without this idea of proverbial training wheels.

[Tokzic]

I like the idea of specifically having one simpler/more casual game running alongside one TWG that is more complex and/or requires more commitment.

[DarkManticoreX2]

I kinda think if we're actually going to discuss this topic, We should do so in a less biased thread/manner.