SARMs

[Arch0wl]

SARMs (selective androgen receptor modulators) are a new and interesting class of pro-androgen that on top of being currently legal can be used for a variety of things that traditional steroids do not. For example, cardarine is used to boost cardiovascular endurance, which to my knowledge no steroid does. Typically they come in pill form or in some kind of bottle with liquid.

At the moment they're being investigated for use in treating muscle wasting. I know for a fact ostarine has been looked into for this, anyway. Also unlike testosterone, where women experience virilization at even low doses, women can take some SARMs with no virilizing side effects.

Has anyone other than me looked into these?

[MosaicMan3]

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

SARMs (selective androgen receptor modulators) are a new and interesting class of pro-androgen that on top of being currently legal can be used for a variety of things that traditional steroids do not. For example, cardarine is used to boost cardiovascular endurance, which to my knowledge no steroid does. Typically they come in pill form or in some kind of bottle with liquid.

At the moment they're being investigated for use in treating muscle wasting. I know for a fact ostarine has been looked into for this, anyway. Also unlike testosterone, where women experience virilization at even low doses, women can take some SARMs with no virilizing side effects.

Has anyone other than me looked into these?

The only juice I know that has been used for endurance training is Equipoise, which is a very expensive nasty steroid in which the side effects counter the positive results, and why it isn't used often. Back in the 70s and 80s a few 1500m runners popped for winny, which is another naster steroid.

On to the SARM discussion, my old work stocked DNA's SARM. And it flew off the shelves when it first came out. However I haven't seen anyone get extraordinary results.

---I don't know where I read this but i remember reading somewhere, probably T-nation---
SARM was studied back in the late 80s by DR. who give a fuck, and he lost funding... But Dr.idgaf wrote numerous journals on it and the questionable supplement companies found out about it, and all figured it was worth to bottle it and sell it.


Anyways there is definately something there in this supplement
Wiki:
"Selective androgen receptor modulators may be used by athletes to assist in training and increase physical stamina and fitness, potentially producing effects similar to anabolic steroids. For this reason, SARMs were banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency in January 2008 despite no drugs from this class yet being in clinical use, and blood tests for all known SARMs have been developed."

If there wasn't some sort of unfair edge with it the ADA wouldn't have banned it.

[Arch0wl]

Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the side effects of steroids. lol. Almost every steroid has some kind of risk of acne/gynecomastia/baldness, though baldness is if you were going to go bald to begin with and acne/gyno really depends on what kind of drugs are taken to combat hormone imbalances while taking the drug, since both are easily prevented. The main side effects IMO worth considering are blood pressure increases and left-ventricular hypertrophy, especially with more powerful steroids, but everyone seems to focus on the superficial yet easily-countered shit like testicular atrophy. That's a separate discussion, though.

EQ is interesting. Most people I know who take EQ (boldenone) do it for size gains. I suppose that low dose boldenone and low dose nandrolone could work for an endurance athlete if they aid recovery and joint relief though, but I think it'd be horrible for endurance. I know it was designed for race horses, although I don't know the protocol a race horse trainer might administer it with.

That said, I'm not really concerned with the ADA's ban of a substance since that's a separate set of conditions from legality or effectiveness. Using it in sports is one thing, although I question how someone would get to the highest level of a sport without it when everyone at the highest level of a sport is using it.

I also don't think I'd compete in a drug tested league for anything ever, personally, though. I'm morally against trying to pass off enhanced performance as unenhanced performance and vice versa. But I suppose if you're an athlete in a sport where everyone does it but doesn't say they do it, the dynamics are a bit different.

Back to SARMs, most of the people I've seen who ran SARM cycles did something like LGD and S4 together for strength. LGD in higher doses is somewhat suppressive to HPTA like exogenous testosterone is, so presumably you'd have to be careful with it.

I'm currently using ostarine for cutting and will add cardarine next month. I'm actually recovering from a slight injury, but I haven't noticed any decreases in strength so far and I'm going really fucking low on calories. Right now I'm 191, target weight 175 or below. I think when I hit 175 I'll be ~7% bf or maybe a little lower. (I'm 6'0", for reference.)

[MosaicMan3]

I just finished a Laxogenin cycle, (very similar to SARMs, both are selective, however Lxn does NOT affect the androgen receptor). Only thing I noticed was I needed less sleep, I would sleep 4 or 5 hours and think I slept for 12 hours. However when I got off of it, I couldn't sleep, and when I could sleep it was actually 12 hours.

But from a logical standpoint. There HAS to be some negative side effects with SARMs. Anything on the face of the earth that effects the Androgen Receptor will cause side-effects, and will be banned by the ADA. Maybe the side effects are a 1/10 vs Tren which I'd say is a 7/10.

But a high enough dose of SARM will cause the effects we all know roids do.

Also rule of thumb is, pill=liver & kidney damage. More so than oils. So I would take the needle before I would take a pro-hormone or Sarm.

[Arch0wl]

Not sure if you knew this or not, but liver damage usually just significantly occurs with alpha-alkylation. There are also forms of methylated trenbolone that circulate on gear websites, which are most certainly liver-toxic, though how much is the question.

This is more conjecture on my part, but while I feel like liver concerns are real, I also feel like it's overstated from how much pro bodybuilders used to take dianabol. I think Arnold's cycles were mostly primobolan/dianabol, and he did that a lot.

With that said I've been definitely concerned with liver repair lately. I used to drink pretty heavily and have barely drank in the past few months. If I want to get fucked up, I'll just take hard drugs once or twice a month. lol.

I think the side effects of SARMs are that with greater doses you can cause HPTA suppression, similar to a steroid. LGD does this the most. S4 is known to cause vision side effects, which is why I've personally stayed away from it. Haven't noticed any sides with Ostarine, but I'm running low-dose.

[MosaicMan3]

Even if the above is true about Sarms, it would be wise to buy a bottle, and just hold onto it until more research is done. If it gets FDA banned then you still have a bottle xD

[Arch0wl]

Yeah they had a buy-3-get-2 sale on columbus day and I was really tempted to buy them like I'm a conservative radio host thinking Obama's going to take his guns