What happens after we die.

[Silver Sky]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Much of the Bible is demonstrably false if you wish to interpret it as a work of literal truth. If you don't wish to interpret the Bible literally, then why bother taking it as literal truth if you accept it's just an allegory?

If you're going to ask for evidence that the Bible is wrong but then say "Well, God should be allowed to change his mind," then you're outright saying that you're not really willing to accept contradictory evidence if you're just going to respond that way to anything presented.

At any rate, fire away at me with whatever questions you have.

Consider what I posted before you make assumptions. What I said about God changing his mind made perfect since. Read it again about how Adam and Eve sinned. How the Nephilum (yes I know it's spelled wrong) came about. Humans were given the right to have freedom of choice. That was coming from God's sovereignty. When Satan said that man could rule himself. Which of course they failed to show. God is allowing that to happen. It got out of hand in Noah's time cause of the angels coming down and all the badness that was abounding. He had regret of the choices they were making. Evolutionists like to pick parts from the bible they would like to contradict. For instance it would say: "Paul loves to run." Then another part say: "Paul doesn't like to run fast." You would change it and put Paul hates running since you didn't fully understand it and read the whole thing. It's interesting though cause Evolution is backed by facts right? Biogenesis. Microevolution and so on. All starting from a single cell most of the time. Tell me. Where did the cells come from? They had to form somehow. And then whatever created the cells, what created that? Interesting if you keep going back and back and back. It will come to a point to where you won't have any answers. It will be a simple "Well there studying that right now" And yet they will never get it down to the last wire.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by Silver Sky

Consider what I posted before you make assumptions. What I said about God changing his mind made perfect since. Read it again about how Adam and Eve sinned. How the Nephilum (yes I know it's spelled wrong) came about. Humans were given the right to have freedom of choice. That was coming from God's sovereignty. When Satan said that man could rule himself. Which of course they failed to show. God is allowing that to happen. It got out of hand in Noah's time cause of the angels coming down and all the badness that was abounding. He had regret of the choices they were making. Evolutionists like to pick parts from the bible they would like to contradict. For instance it would say: "Paul loves to run." Then another part say: "Paul doesn't like to run fast." You would change it and put Paul hates running since you didn't fully understand it and read the whole thing. It's interesting though cause Evolution is backed by facts right? Biogenesis. Microevolution and so on. All starting from a single cell most of the time. Tell me. Where did the cells come from? They had to form somehow. And then whatever created the cells, what created that? Interesting if you keep going back and back and back. It will come to a point to where you won't have any answers. It will be a simple "Well there studying that right now" And yet they will never get it down to the last wire.

I'm talking about things in the Bible that make factual claims about our real world that we can easily show did not happen.

You are also basically invoking argument from ignorance -- because nobody may know the answer to something, it is therefore OK to just make up an explanation and call it a day.

At any rate, we know how the Earth formed. We know what kind of events would have had to take place for the first cells to form. We know evolution is a fact. We know the circumstances surrounding the Big Bang. All of these things are supported by mountains of well-established evidence.

BTW, the origin of life is a different question from how that life changes. Evolution addresses how life has changes over time. Something like abiogenesis would describe how life arose from inorganic matter.

Asking "where did everything come from?" is indeed a tough question that nobody knows for absolute certain. Not you. Not me. Not anyone. If you watch the video I just posted, though, you'll see that it is possible to get "something out of nothing" under quantum mechanics. Of course, it's really more like getting something out of something, but the point here is that you either have to accept that existence has always existed, or that existence was able to spontaneously appear out of nothing. The problem is that it doesn't make sense to define what "absolute nothingness" is because even quantum fluctuations are "something."

You don't get any closer by invoking a God. If you're content with saying "God doesn't need an explanation for his existence," then why not say "The universe/the frameworks of existence need no explanation for their existence"? At least the latter has evidence for it! The former has absolutely nothing. Why not save yourself the step?

In other words, why do you *really* believe in a God?

[devonin]

They had to form somehow. And then whatever created the cells, what created that? Interesting if you keep going back and back and back.

This raises many objections to many things, but in absolutely no way, shape or form, implies the existance of the Christian God of the Bible.

[Reincarnate]

Silver Sky:

Tons of great information here:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-evolution.html

If you actually take the time to read this stuff, you'd see why you'd have a very, very hard time trying to prove evolution false when it's so overwhelmingly and obviously true.

Even *if* you accept evolution as true and simply move the goalposts by saying "Well, God made the Earth, then" -- we can discuss that, too:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-youngearth.html
And a nifty little timeline to help keep things organized: http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/geo_timeline.html

If it comes to the talk about where the first cells actually came from, you can get a good idea for abiogenesis theories here:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/
The Origin of Life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg

And if you want to go a step further and say "Okay, so evolution is true, God wasn't needed to explain where the first cells came from, and we know where Earth came from... but then that says nothing about the Big Bang" then check the following out:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html
The Evidence For The Big Bang In 10 Little Minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCkADmNdNo
A Universe From Nothing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

And my favorite video on Youtube:

This video is really more of a statistical piece for me... it really shows you just how large our universe is. When you consider how many stars are contained in a *single* galaxy, and how many possible planets each star can have, and then look at how many galaxies there are (and even then, it's just the amount we're physically able to see!) -- it's overwhelming. This video is comprised from real data, btw.

[Reincarnate]

There's a lot to go through, but if you're actually serious about testing your faith against the science, then it helps to actually know the science.

[billymaysheeer]

i just can't picture there being nothing.
i may not believe in heaven and hell necessarily, but the concept of just being..gone doesn't sit well with me.
i think there has to be something. maybe not ghosts, maybe not heaven and hell, but something.
personally, i think the idea of reincarnation sounds most likely for some reason.
there being nothing at all after we die doesn't sound likely to me. the thought scares me.

[Reincarnate]

Whether or not something is scary or incomprehensible has no bearing on whether or not it's true/false. Quantum mechanics is crazy-hard to grasp and yet its predictive power is unparalleled... without it, much of our modern-day technology would not be here.

[Silver Sky]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

I'm talking about things in the Bible that make factual claims about our real world that we can easily show did not happen.

You are also basically invoking argument from ignorance -- because nobody may know the answer to something, it is therefore OK to just make up an explanation and call it a day.

At any rate, we know how the Earth formed. We know what kind of events would have had to take place for the first cells to form. We know evolution is a fact. We know the circumstances surrounding the Big Bang. All of these things are supported by mountains of well-established evidence.

BTW, the origin of life is a different question from how that life changes. Evolution addresses how life has changes over time. Something like abiogenesis would describe how life arose from inorganic matter.

Asking "where did everything come from?" is indeed a tough question that nobody knows for absolute certain. Not you. Not me. Not anyone. If you watch the video I just posted, though, you'll see that it is possible to get "something out of nothing" under quantum mechanics. Of course, it's really more like getting something out of something, but the point here is that you either have to accept that existence has always existed, or that existence was able to spontaneously appear out of nothing. The problem is that it doesn't make sense to define what "absolute nothingness" is because even quantum fluctuations are "something."

You don't get any closer by invoking a God. If you're content with saying "God doesn't need an explanation for his existence," then why not say "The universe/the frameworks of existence need no explanation for their existence"? At least the latter has evidence for it! The former has absolutely nothing. Why not save yourself the step?

In other words, why do you *really* believe in a God?

Well you see Rubix. When it comes to the bible I know you and me disagree with many things. Cause what I will tell you, you won't think is true. For instance why I really believe in God. For one all the evidence like I said can't be explained. I know how scientists can go only so far like you said. But I believe in all the evidence around me. All the prophecies the bible has foretold has come true and is right now. But I know you say that wow some man wrote something down and got lucky. I would just have to say that was one lucky guy that got inspired oh by something? Interesting but oh well. I understand when people get deeply entrenched in their beliefs it's hard to talk about it. And yes talking about you and me. Cause I see this going nowhere cause it's evidence against evidence. But apparently my evidence that is real isn't good enough for evolutionists. So that's pretty much where it stands.

[Reincarnate]

Okay so you *aren't* going to actually bother with the evidence. Looks like I gave you too much credit when you implied you were open to explanations.

Do you at least acknowledge that there are *plenty* of Biblical prophecies that turned out false? Do you understand that a prophecy isn't a prophecy if it's only right by chance? Do you understand what confirmation bias is?

I could sit here and make 100 predictions about the future. A bunch of them will be wrong, and a bunch of them will be right. That doesn't mean you can just pay attention to what I got right and think I am divinely inspired.

[Reincarnate]

Check this out

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

I'll point to some pretty direct ones here:

http://www.goatstar.org/failed-prophecies/

[devonin]

But apparently my evidence that is real isn't good enough for evolutionists. So that's pretty much where it stands.

You've provided no evidence. Provide evidence and we can see how it stands up to scrutiny. If your claim (As I've posted, good lord, so many times on this forum over the years) is that there is enough "evidence" for -you- to believe how you believe, but that you accept that it isn't enough for others, or are not actually trying to convince others that you are correct, then that is well and good, and I accept that you believe your belief.

if your position is that the evidence is sufficient for you -and- others and that we -should- believe what you believe, give us -actual- evidence, or leave the thread.

[RB_Dreamscanner]

What i believe, and more or less hope about after life is it like being asleep more or less.

Sometimes when we sleep we don't remember any dreams at all right? We remember going to sleep at 1:00 AM, and we know we woke up at 7:00 AM. We literally know we were asleep for those 6 hours, but sub-consciously since we do not remember a dream happening, that was just an area of black. We know we had that area of black cause we are now awake and don't remember anything happening, but during that area of black, it's just.. nothing. If death were to be like that, i right now say i am accepting of that, cause it is literally nothing, and that is my assumtion of what it is because im on the fence with religious views of an after life.

[AsphyxZero]

I was talking to IamMe about this maybe 6 or 7 months ago, when I was seriously questioning my faith.

"Imagining what happens when you die is like trying to imagine a color that hasn't been discovered yet. It's almost impossible."

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by AsphyxZero

I was talking to IamMe about this maybe 6 or 7 months ago, when I was seriously questioning my faith.

"Imagining what happens when you die is like trying to imagine a color that hasn't been discovered yet. It's almost impossible."

Nah, you don't have to go that far. Just think about what it's like when you have a dreamless sleep or when you go under general anesthetic. Or think about what life was like before you were born. You already know what it feels like to have your conscious mind at ease.

[AsphyxZero]

Originally Posted by Choofers

Hi, I'm a Christian but I still don't know what my stance is on death.

I accept the fact that my rate of death is higher than most Americans, but that still doesn't change the fact that no one REALLY knows what happens after death.

Theoretically speaking, since your body shuts down and begins to decay, you should return to a state of nothingness and cease to exist. I like to hold onto the belief that there is a heaven and hell though.

oh derp, I posted in this thread a while back. not religious anymore hehe, what happened

@MrRubix: Probably why he said almost impossible. It's probably impossible to think of nothingness, and I'm not going to try because the thought of death and non-existence is, admittedly, kinda scary.

I know what it's like to go under anesthesia, and how I feel afterwards, but I don't know what it's like to be asleep during that time.

[billymaysheeer]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Whether or not something is scary or incomprehensible has no bearing on whether or not it's true/false. Quantum mechanics is crazy-hard to grasp and yet its predictive power is unparalleled... without it, much of our modern-day technology would not be here.

hmm.
very true, i suppose.
i wasn't basing my opinion off of the fact that it was scary though. xD sorry if it came across that way.

[Cavernio]

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus

well i was more like on dismembering the corpses and use them as fertilizers. people hold on too much on life, till the point they actually try to keep metaphorically alive even those who died.

1 people's feelings come first, even at points of starvation
2 This would spread diseases. We don't use human shit as fertilizer for the same reason.

[fido123]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

1 people's feelings come first, even at points of starvation

Feelings > Life? Maybe for you but I think you're batshit crazy.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

2 This would spread diseases. We don't use human shit as fertilizer for the same reason.

Why would using human tissue cause disease yet a cow's wouldn't?

[Reincarnate]

Because we generally eat meat. Our poop is full of pathogens. Cows don't have the same problem because they're largely grazing animals that eat lots of plants. You can use composted human feces, though, as long as you're properly removing all the heavy metals and stuff like that.

But no we don't exactly see a nearby Humanburger joint where we can partake in burgers made from the meat of the dead -- largely for health and moral reasons.

[kommisar]

nothing ever entirely "dies" since for something to exist it must have an obvious MASS and this MASS is composed of ENERGY which is I guess what you would call HEAT and a lack of this HEAT is a lack of ENERGY and if something has a 0 value of ENERGY it simply does not exist therefore the definition of DEATH is simply a lack of CONSCIOUSNESS since in fact nothing ever loses its LIFE as one would say.


but seriously I like the ideology in the book brave new world. when you die, you become compost and feed da plants to continue the circle of life. even after death you're still making things live!