Old 05-3-2012, 06:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

You guys need to remember the difficulty system pertains to the majority of the users (spread) because the spread players are so dominant.

You can't really factor how indexers see this chart. Even on index this chart is still hard as shit.
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Old 05-3-2012, 06:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

dont really see how this is an fgo tbh, id say keep it an fmo, its not fgo material
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:03 PM   #23
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

At least it's not a framer mess.
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:05 PM   #24
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

FMO, not even close to FGO in my eyes - one huge 16th run the whole way through with a moderately-long left handed trill

yeah, it's legacy and yes, it's offsync, but nothing within the chart's physical structure merits a FGO
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

uh... lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakulyte View Post
Reasons:

- Background
All it takes is focus and learning the chart, the background has nothing to with the difficulty or notes themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakulyte View Post
Reasons:

- Blue notes
This qualifies as an FGO how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakulyte View Post
Reasons:

- Very unfriendly to spread players
Then play index!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakulyte View Post
Reasons:

- High amount of long trills + transitions
- One very long one hand trill at moderate speed
- Awkward Running man after getting stamina drained from trills
These patterns shouldn't be difficult to hit if you just learn every part of the chart.

These "reasons" sound more like complaints to me. Should stay as an 11.
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

Considering this file main difficulty is related to raw trilling speed/consistency and not weird patterns, I can see why top players wouldn't understand where the hell I'm coming from with this thread. .-.

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Old 05-3-2012, 07:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

Just because you're godly at the game does not mean you're right about the difficulty rating...
Lets see... Caprice was just as hard back then as it is now and oh it got bumped down... Still a ****ing 12 in difficulty... FOTBB is harder then Caprice by a long shot..

I personally think those who complain about the ratings of something being "too easy for a 12" when it comes to songs such as this and Caprice.. Need to chill out.. Add an extra category or something but the song isn't going to get any easier by lowering or any harder by making the lvl higher... Just saying..
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:32 PM   #28
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

If the song is so easy, then why do the statistics say otherwise? First of all, you already have the statistics in the OP. Also, I just so happened to look at the levelranks of various D5 players to see their scores on FotBB. I saw one score out of a dozen that was an sdg or better, with the rest averaging somewhere around 20 goods. Considering that D5 players can sdg a good handful of FGO's, it seems fishy that many of them are still stuck with over 20 goods on an FMO.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakulyte View Post
Considering this file main difficulty is related to raw trilling speed/consistency and not weird patterns, I can see why top players wouldn't understand where the hell I'm coming from with this thread. .-.
THANK YOU. I was going to say this but couldn't find words for it. Top-tier players have a more developed sense of speed, and because of this, I think it's hard for them to judge the difficulty of files that are based on sheer speed, because to them easy patterns are easy even if they are fast as ****. Sorry, for sounding like an anti-elitist douche right now, but every time I see a difficulty thread, I always see this divide between D1-4 and D5-6 with D5-6 saying the file isn't even that hard.

EDITV2: Yes, I've probably ****ing edited this a million times already. I have more to say, but I don't want to double post.
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:36 PM   #29
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexDest View Post
All it takes is focus and learning the chart, the background has nothing to with the difficulty or notes themselves.
I wouldn't have an AAA on Revolutionary Etude right now if I didn't have the Velocity noteskin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexDest View Post
This qualifies as an FGO how?
This I can agree somewhat, but it can make some 8th pauses more awkward (because while this file is long sections of 16ths, there are some 8th pauses in between).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexDest View Post
Then play index!
No comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexDest View Post
These patterns shouldn't be difficult to hit if you just learn every part of the chart.
More like you need to be aware there are some 8th gaps in between the big 16th sections, and saying "just learn every part of the chart" is a really bad argument. That would be like me saying DP's ending trill isn't difficult to hit "if you just learn it".

If you use another noteskin for this file such as Velocity's noteskin, the background becomes less of a problem. Personally I think using these provided noteskins is a much better approach than blindly trying to "memorize" this file, because playing with the Velocity noteskin makes almost every BG file more tolerable. If one decides not to use what's given to them in the engine, then they're making the chart worse for themselves.

Granted this file does have a lot of awkward transitions too, it doesn't have a consistent 16th scheme to it. I'd find trills 10 notes long or something and then other trills being broken up into weird runningmen sections. It certainly does take a lot of concentration to read past these and physically do them, but it's better than some fast awkward bursts like in Flesvelka.

Voting high 11 on the 1-14 scale, but the 1-20 scale would probably make this fit better with the "low FGO" difficulty when it comes out.
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:38 PM   #30
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

The problem is that there's a handful of people that are playing spread. People rule out the other styles of play--preferably index or three-fingered--which make FOTBB much more easier than playing on spread. Yes, the one-handed trills are brutal but we can't just base the difficulty for only spread players now. Everyone is just too undetermined to even approach this stepfile with another style of play.

I'm not intending to come out as an elitist, neither am I saying, "you guys are bad this file isn't an FGO." I'm saying is that we shouldn't be ruling out any of the other styles of play which make FOTBB more tolerable than just playing spread.
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:46 PM   #31
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

FMO
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:46 PM   #32
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8 Hour Whore View Post
FOTBB is harder then Caprice by a long shot..
Cool, I'm not the only one who thinks this~

I can get sub 50 goods on Caprice (including misses and other junk) but I can't get less than 150 goods on FotBB and still haven't FC'd this either, even when intense mashing.
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:49 PM   #33
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

statistically maybe, but calling this a 12 is the similar discussion with calling sssg 9.

bpm/tps/pattern wise, don't see suitable reasons for 12.
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:54 PM   #34
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimerax View Post
statistically maybe, but calling this a 12 is the similar discussion with calling sssg 9.

bpm/tps/pattern wise, don't see suitable reasons for 12.
Then make more difficulties... Too stupid to say something like well Rottel, Toxiferous, and FOTBB are all the same skill level.. When clearly they aren't..
Just saying
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Old 05-3-2012, 07:55 PM   #35
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

Out of curiosity, why SSSG is not a [6,7,8,9] ?

I think it's relevant to thread because FOTBB is the same story on a higher difficulty.
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Old 05-3-2012, 08:01 PM   #36
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

FMO. The background and BNS only demands concentration. The hardest part of the file is the one-handed trill which seems to be everyone's weakness these days haha. This pattern itself isn't enough to bump it up to a FGO. Club and AIM Anthem are also unfriendly to spread players.

If you take out the one handed trills, the file plays itself as a low-mid FMO (assuming that Of course is a mid-FMO). All it requires is speed and concentration. If you compare FOTBB to any low FGO, you will observe a drastic difference in patterns.

EDIT: My argument still stands for itself if we are talking about SSSG. Offsyncness demands concentration as well.
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Old 05-3-2012, 08:07 PM   #37
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

first off, the streams in this song are no faster than any typical VC/FMO. Purple has extended 230 BPM 16th streams and I don't see anyone running for the hills and saying that it should be more difficult, and I'm 100% sure this song's streams are slower than that. The background is irrelevant compared to songs like P4U, because the arrows are visible the entire time - if you can't read it, lower your speed mod slightly. If you have issues with the trilling, switch to a more favorable setup so that the trills are doable. There's a lot of determining factors that make this song harder than it really is, one of the biggest factors being the off-sync nature of the song, and yes, it adds a lot of artificial difficulty. However, if you can sit here and tell me that this chart would be any higher than a 10 with no BG/all colored arrows and justify a TWO DIFFICULTY JUMP in between that, you let me know. A background/legacy style chart does not add two points to the initial chart's rating, and if you think otherwise, you're quite foolish.

EDIT:

FMO

EDIT2: this is going to sound elitist, but I don't care -- if you can't score relatively well on this file, you really hold no merit towards the difficulty change, I feel this way with any file in game -- if you're barely able to FC the song, you shouldn't be trying to get the rating changed unless it is ridiculously obvious.

think about other occupations - you're not going to tell a fine-dining chef that their food is incorrectly cooked when you don't know how to even cook a piece of chicken

Last edited by nois-or-e; 05-3-2012 at 09:10 PM.. Reason: let's keep this civil guys
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Old 05-3-2012, 08:18 PM   #38
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

Certainly an FMO, for reasons already posted.
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Old 05-3-2012, 08:20 PM   #39
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

I would kind of have to lean towards FMO, seeing as the patterns aren't dense, just hard as shit to get good PA on.
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Old 05-3-2012, 08:22 PM   #40
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Default Re: Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TC_Halogen View Post
this is going to sound elitist, but I don't care -- if you can't score relatively well on this file, you really hold no merit towards the difficulty change, I feel this way with any file in game -- if you're barely able to FC the song, you shouldn't be trying to get the rating changed unless it is ridiculously obvious.
The speed and consistency required along with getting past random patterns is part of the difficulty. Difficulty shouldn't only be defined for people who have the speed to hit the file.

Another file that has long one handed trills and requires a lot of consistency/concentration is Blooddrunk [Heavy] and that isn't a 12, despite how it also has some awkward 8th pauses in between. Sure, it's a little over 20 BPM slower, but it certainly isn't easy to get through.

Taking out the background, the file would still be something like mid FMO -- using Velocity's noteskin basically makes the file like it would be without the annoying background, so if the background is giving you serious issues, I suggest using iironiic's method for the legacy engine or using different noteskins on Velocity's engine.

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I would kind of have to lean towards FMO, seeing as the patterns aren't dense, just hard as shit to get good PA on.
Pattern choice matters. 120 bpm 8th quads would be "more dense" than 200 bpm 16th stream.
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