MAX Forever [8 or 9]

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by Zageron

It might be difficult to consistently PA but the song is incredibly easy, and does not deserve 9 status.

*opinion*

So long as we're ignoring song length, lets go ahead and bump Fast Asleep up to 11, AcidAce to 11, mutant corecore to 12, FFLBF to 10, Blue Army to 9, and Blue Noah to 9.

PS, MAX Forever = 9.

[PrawnSkunk]

I hate both Lethal Injection and MAX Forever. IMO, those are the most difficult 8's to PA. So, I'm also jumping on the +1 bandwagon. I'd love to see this become a 9. 8-)

[iironiic]

If Blooddrunk is a FMO, then MAX Forever is a 9. Mainly consists of straightforward patterns but it's hard to be consistent. Furthermore the length adds to its difficulty.

[stavie33]

It is hands down a 9 but it is nearly ingrained into us that it is the cutoff for all 8's; and I accept that, since it being a low 9 technically puts it above all 8's ever, it being the ultimate 8 does the same job. It's the same thing by a different name, highest 8 ever or one of the lowest 9's. Frankly, I'm used to it at an 8 and I think it's a good symbol of the wall to overcome. I view 9's as the starting point for technical FFR playing, because that's when the files really put on their technical hats (Divinity, Tori no Uta, long stream files and tricky jumpstream start appearing here as well).

Using Max Forever as the boundary between the peak of casual playing and the beginning of technical playing has always seemed like a good idea. Casual playing in my eyes is being able to do straight, simple, readable, comfortable patterns, but of varying speed and length. Max Forever takes simple patterns in stream and jump and says 'so you've think you've mastered it? Here's a marathon testing all you've learned, how long can you last?'.

And if you make it, it's like restarting at a slightly easier level that tests different skills and develops them. Like how a boss song in (earlier) DDR games on standard may be harder than low heavy's, but it's a nice barrier between the two before you start learning heavy files and the technicality they throw at you (like how crossovers and gallops used to be near non existent in standard charts)

[rayword45]

Originally Posted by iironiic

If Blooddrunk is a FMO, then MAX Forever is a 9. Mainly consists of straightforward patterns but it's hard to be consistent. Furthermore the length adds to its difficulty.

Different thread, but if Blooddrunk was 2 minutes and had 66% of the one-handed trills, it'd still be an 11.

Max Forever blows (IMO) all of the 9s in the 60-61 zones out of the water.

[awein999]

This song is a solid 9. Length and consistency necessities bump this up to a mid 9 in my book.

[SeraphinEveles]

i have to rate the song at a 9, due to length, while many players who are at the 8-9 level area may find the step pattern easy, the shear length of the song proves to be a challenge, since there isn't much else in the game even running at this length.

[inDheart]

length

why exactly is length a problem? it just means you need a bit of endurance, and not get too bored. also, the trills are pretty slow, and there is only one trill transition i remember that's rough. i don't think there's that much 9 worthy about it. high 8 for me.

[rayword45]

The length will make this somewhat stamina-draining for those in 8-territory, and index players may possibly have problems with a few jumps late into the song (I know, that's 7-8 material, but that's after 2000 notes of streaming) while spread players will have problems with the trills.

AAAing is a bitch simply due to length.

[devonin]

Some insight from a player whose skill level is smack in the middle of the song in question.

Did Max Forever. Not my best score, I don't play that much so my endurance is pretty shit. Pulled 88% perfects, 1.5% misses and 1.5% boos. Those miss/boo numbers were basically identical, which says to me "Every note I missed, I booed, so I basically -hit- everything, and didn't mash at all, but my timing wasn't excellent"

Then I did the bottom three 9's.

86% 89% and a dismal 74% on {Arabian Assassin}

My miss and boo counts were also either both higher, or I had more boos than misses, which means I was also being more spastic in places and less confident that I knew where my fingers were supposed to be. These songs weren't "Clean except for timing issues" like Max was, these were just "I did worse, because the songs are harder"

Max Forever is an 8. A very high 8, but as someone for whom Fc'ing these songs isn't just a given, I did MUCH better on Max than I did on even a 60 just above it.

[popsicle_3000]

I vote to make this a 9.
This was one of my last 8s to FC, after years of playing it. yes, the patterns are easy, and I can get very good PA in those now, but the thrills make it much much harder. The stamina it takes to play for 5min and then do one-handed thrills... I'm a mid/high D2 player and my best is around a 87-x-0-x

[rayword45]

Similar to World Tour 2004 (which never passes 10 level IMO) this song simply requires too much consistency to PA to remain an 8. It's very easy to teen/SDG, but incredibly tedious to AAA for an 8.

[igotrhythm]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Max Forever is a lot of 10 NPS stream. Sustaining 10 note per second runs isn't common in level 8 charts, especially with runs of that length.

Personally, it can go either way, but I'd much rather see it as a 9 simply for length (although, this is somewhat of a hypocritical opinion, considering Blue Army is well over 5 minutes and has a ton of streaming...).

I had more issues with the 32nd bursts and the jumpspam at the very end when I was still going for the FC on this. Still, HST's cut version of this on F4 is a heck of a lot more stamina-draining due to 30-40 seconds of straight 12 nps stream going into two long one-handed trills ending in a minijack.

Back on topic, 10 nps really isn't an issue to stay consistent on for a lot of people until you get to the long trills in the ending, and there also aren't any minijacks that I can recall. I think the main issue here is that while we all agree the patterns are 8, the sheer stamina and consistency required just to SDG are what push it towards Challenging. Since those are demands on the player rather than anything native to the file, however, I'll vote 8.

[Erik542]

I believe it to be a 9, simply because length does matter. What's the difference between a burst and a roll? The fact that you only do it once. The longer a pattern has to be maintained, the harder it is. A 50 note trill is harder than a 10 note trill. If you say that length doesn't matter, then I could simply whip up a file which is simply Max Forever played 5 times back to back with identical stepping. I doubt such a file would remain an 8.

[nois-or-e]

I can't understand how anyone could consider this a 9. It is slow, easy and rather boring. Long? Yes. Hard? No.

The trills can be a pain to some, but they are slow, easy trills. The stream is slow and easy, Harry potter stream is harder to AAA imo.

Have to agree with stavie in that it is sort of cemented in as the hardest 8.

[rayword45]

The way I see it, it goes down to this.

8 (Mostly lower-end players): The song is incredibly simple with literally no difficult patterns.

9 (Mostly higher-end): The song is too ****in long and requires assloads of consistency.

So basically, those going for an FC, high 8. AAA, Mid-high 9 (or even higher)

[emulord]

I agree with Stavie. Its a boss 8

[runescapedude1126]

Going for an AAA does NOT warrant changing a difficulty though. How many people start playing and day 1 go "I'm going to AAA this 8/9!!". Judge the difficulty on the overall song, not how hard it is to AAA. Length sucks but with slow songs length is nothing, raise the bpm by 40 and you now have a song less than 3 minutes, and even THEN it could be a 9, just because it is long does not mean it has the rest of the characteristics to be a 9. If you are a scientist, and have ONE ingredient to make a dangerous chemical, but none of the others, can you make it? This song has ONE characteristic of a 9, but none of the others, it is an 8.

[Jerry DB]

Look at the play count compared to the AAA count, also those trills, especially the one hand trills can be easy to get lost on even though they are slow. Sure it's slow but Considering it is 4 times longer then most 8's I would say it is a 9. There is probably 50 9's in this game that are easier to AAA then max forever

[wildfireskunk]

Hardest 8 imo. I think I've got one AAA on a 9 and it was on index. I've got 3-0-0-0 on this which is better than most of my 9s. The only problem imo is getting the trills down, but play long enough and they become pretty easy as they're slow. This chart is devoid of any complex midrun jumps or jumpstream that a lot of 9s have, and the runs are slow enough that PAing them isn't as challenging as other stream 9s like Blaze. And the runs are less complex than CIA Rave.

It's also nice because this is well known as the highest 8, so it stops us having to find something else to put in its place.