Old 12-14-2011, 07:30 PM   #4241
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

I am 100% certain it would be put down as a 12 when in actuality scoring on it becomes a 13 (and I think everyone would try using double setup on the zeroframers anyways)

My best on Chrono is 5-0-1-0 and 7-0-0-0, while my best on DP is 8-0-0-1 even with massive amounts of derpy runs. It is basically the same case with Crowdpleaser.
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oh boy, it's STIFF, I'll stretch before I sit down at the computer so not I'm not as STIFF next time I step a file
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Old 12-14-2011, 07:40 PM   #4242
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

I'm noticing a trend lately. It seems that as the main people on the site gets better, difficulty scoring seemed to get reworked to fit around their skill level, often ignoring those below them.

Before I left the game for a year or so, songs like LWIV were FMOs and everyone seemed happy with this. I come back and see that it's a 10 and honestly I laughed. There was no reason for that change (and a few others) other than the fact that the top players began to find it easier and easier.

It's a bit of an oversight IMO to have nothing but top tier players (with I think what, one exception?) doing the ratings for files. It's hard to get a clear unbiased opinion from them and when the lower tier of players argue their decision, we're wrong because we clearly "just don't get it".

I don't know when FFR started this direction...But I have to say that since I've been back, I don't like it.

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Old 12-14-2011, 07:40 PM   #4243
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

Quote:
Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI View Post
I am 100% certain it would be put down as a 12 when in actuality scoring on it becomes a 13 (and I think everyone would try using double setup on the zeroframers anyways)

My best on Chrono is 5-0-1-0 and 7-0-0-0, while my best on DP is 8-0-0-1 even with massive amounts of derpy runs. It is basically the same case with Crowdpleaser.
Wait is Chrono on some offline engine besides that 1-frame timing/ave-miss DDRSpain one?
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Old 12-14-2011, 09:31 PM   #4244
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

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Originally Posted by qqwref View Post
There are a LOT of VCs nowadays that are harder than what the VC-FMO cutoff ought to be.

Honestly, at this point, the only consistent solution would be to lower every single FMO that is too easy to unlock Oni. That's how bad the difficulty ranking has gotten
God. No to your solution. I agree that some songs might want to be lowered but not all of them.

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Old comment, but relevant to what I came here to say: The ranking of difficulties seems to continually get driven upwards with the progression of the game. People seem to frequently talk about "borderline files" that could fit in, of the most argued, a VC if you look at it "this way" and an FMO if you look at it "that way." It seems to me that if we stopped allowing files that are argued to be borderline to drop below the cutoff, then this recent surge of overplacing files would diminish, if not come to a complete halt. It could create the problem of underplacing files, but given the current state of this issue, at least, how far I've seen this issue go in my time here, I feel a drastic reaction might be appropriate.
I don't really care for the argument of borderline charts. tbh so I don't know how to respond to this.

But let me throw this out.

Some fmos obviously need to be lowered. They don't fit in with the "now day" fmos. The two i think of are Novo Mundo and Choprite in specific.

But I also feel some vcs should be highered in difficulty to make fmos more dynamic. I also feel there need to be some fmos upped to fgo for sake of more dynamic difficulties.

My issue is that fgos are just dumpy monstrocitys that are ape shit hard and all seem to be really really higher end fgo with less lower end fgos (like holy orders.)

Does that make sense? I think the issue is lack of being dynamic not so much that charts are borderline.

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryusei_ View Post
I'm noticing a trend lately. It seems that as the main people on the site gets better, difficulty scoring seemed to get reworked to fit around their skill level, often ignoring those below them.

Before I left the game for a year or so, songs like LWIV were FMOs and everyone seemed happy with this. I come back and see that it's a 10 and honestly I laughed. There was no reason for that change (and a few others) other than the fact that the top players began to find it easier and easier.

It's a bit of an oversight IMO to have nothing but top tier players (with I think what, one exception?) doing the ratings for files. It's hard to get a clear unbiased opinion from them and when the lower tier of players argue their decision, we're wrong because we clearly "just don't get it".

I don't know when FFR started this direction...But I have to say that since I've been back, I don't like it.

/2cents
I agree with you to an extent. The charts that were moved were debated on heavily, and that I disagree with you on. But I do agree that the difficulty ratings as of lately have been shifting due to the opinions of strictly the highest tier players. And that I do agree is kinda of wrong. I don't think of it as a bias - I think of it more of the highest tier people have been the ones in here discussing it the most. I would like to see less of a drastic change in what each difficulty is and more of an explanation and civil discussion over the charts being placed specifically by a set of guidelines the community can agree on.

Last edited by Xx{Midnight}xX; 12-14-2011 at 09:38 PM..
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Old 12-17-2011, 02:19 AM   #4245
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

I think we can determine borderline songs of every difficulty here in current difficulty scale.

1 (Easiest)
High-End - Trip To The Moon

2 (For Beginners)
High-End - Computer Dreams

3 (Very Easy)
High-End - Salad For Your Tuesday

4 (Easy)
High-End - Strawberry

5 (Standard)
High-End - The Essential

6 (Tricky)
High-End - Legend of Zelda, Infinite Blue

7 (Difficult)
High-End - Tetris Remix, Bubble Bobble Hillbilly Rodeo

8 (Very difficult)
High-End - The Games We Played, Part 2

9 (Challenging)
High-End - Over the Frail Dream

10 (Very Challenging)
High-End - Bus Rides With People, Keep In Mind, Vertex BETA

11 (For Masters Only)
High-End - He's A Radical Rat, Piano Concerto 1 'ANTI-ARES', Piano Etude (Gymnastics)

12 (For Guru's Only)
High-End - Revolutionaly Etude

Suggestions? If you think there're better songs for the borderline, post here.

Edited - 1 time

Last edited by jimerax; 12-17-2011 at 02:42 AM..
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Old 12-17-2011, 02:32 AM   #4246
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

I don't think we should have a high border on one difficulty and then a low border on the next, because then it implies that those two are very very slightly different in difficulty, with nothing between them. But what if, for instance, I find a song that is harder than Over the Frail Dream but easier than Aztec Templing? Or what if I think Radical Rat is harder than Frictional Nevada? Then we may have a problem placing songs. So I'd rather just use a "high-end" border for each difficulty.

As for the VC and FMO higher cutoffs, I do feel like there are existing FMOs that are easier than the high VCs you list, and existing FGOs that are easier than the high FMOs. Songs like Novo Mundo, Choprite, Ketsarku Mozgalom, Reality, etc. have been on the high side of their respective borders for a long time, and yet are easier than many songs that are now placed on the low side. So, I'd rather consider Vertex BETA the highest VC and Piano Etude (Gymnastics) the highest FMO. I know there are currently harder songs, but I think those do a good job of reflecting what people intuitively feel is a good cutoff.
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Old 12-17-2011, 02:42 AM   #4247
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

ok removed low-ends, put additional req songs.
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:50 AM   #4248
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

Some suggestions :

4 (Easy) ==> SSSG (don't know why it's still a 4 )

8 (Very difficult) ==> MAX Forever

11 (For Masters Only) ==> Skeletor (I'm ok with Radical and ANTI-ARES, but not so much with Gymnastics)
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:52 PM   #4249
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

5 should be Clash on the Big Bridge.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:14 PM   #4250
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

FF7 Battle is one of the easiest 10s I've played. 8th note jumps, occasional 16th jumpstream and few 24th bursts don't really make this song a 10 imo. Maybe it's just because I stepped it and find everything easy about it :P (sightread AAA'd btw)
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:18 PM   #4251
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

My attempt:


1 (Easiest)
High-End - Trip To The Moon (but they're all rather similar)

2 (For Beginners)
High-End - Computer Dreams

3 (Very Easy)
High-End - 100 Bar Blackout

4 (Easy)
High-End - Strawberry

5 (Standard)
High-End - ???

6 (Tricky)
High-End - Legend of Zelda, Let Mom Sleep

7 (Difficult)
High-End - Kire Kire Mayoi, Lady's Cake

8 (Very difficult)
High-End - Max Forever, Jurs OP if MF is given that necessary bump

9 (Challenging)
High-End - Dazzling Soul, elegante

10 (Very Challenging)
High-End - Counter-Strike Gun Sounds

11 (For Masters Only)
High-End - Blooddrunk, Piano Etude (Gymnastics)

12 (For Guru's Only)
High-End - Revolutionary Etude, Eclipse (Solar)
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:01 PM   #4252
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

Indo No Sobaya- Definitely not an FGO. Only remotely hard thing is the jumptrills halfway through and maybe the jacks at the end, but that's no harder than many FMOs (i.e. I personally think it's easier than NEED ME)

Move it to 11.
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:27 PM   #4253
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

I agree it's more of an 11 than a 12. It's lame jacks and a few obnoxious jumptrills. The Anti Ares Kirby FMO is a lot harder. The D4 fmo is A LOT harder than this one.
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:42 PM   #4254
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

I only looked at the replay, but Try to Star is almost certainly a 10, and not an 11. Just find a harder 10 with a similar feel, such as Run Through the Stream of Time (not even a borderline 10), and I'm sure they're more challenging to AAA or FC. The trills in this song doesn't appear to be enormously problematic.
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:45 PM   #4255
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

I imagine None Would Escape and Vertex Beta and the like would be more difficult than Try to star from the looks of it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:05 PM   #4256
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmah View Post
I only looked at the replay, but Try to Star is almost certainly a 10, and not an 11. Just find a harder 10 with a similar feel, such as Run Through the Stream of Time (not even a borderline 10), and I'm sure they're more challenging to AAA or FC. The trills in this song doesn't appear to be enormously problematic.
Was going to post this, but looks like someone beat me to it. Try to Star is a mid 10, max, from looking at the chart.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:19 PM   #4257
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

Yeah TtS felt like a mid/high 10 rather than an FMO when I played it. It's rather fast but the transitions are excellent, and the trills are not too much of a problem.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:48 PM   #4258
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

It's also fun as all living hell

Can't forget that
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:24 PM   #4259
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

changed TTS. Indo can be FMO, more opinions/statistics.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:14 PM   #4260
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Default Re: Ingame Song Information

I reckon Sexplosion should be a 9. It has some 'tricky' parts (the fast staircase sections spring to mind), but the jacks really aren't all that hard, and I would posit that 'Can Can (Piano Version)' (A VC file) is actually a harder file to FC & AAA.

Also, I agree that Indo should be an FMO. I just tried it, and I couldn't get an FC on it (my keyboard doesn't like working fast or hitting quads), but it definitely didn't feel as hard as most FGOs that I've played, and definitely felt more in line with Mid-High FMOs.
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