TWG V Postgame Analysis

[GuidoHunter]

::hangs head::

Okay, something I would like to point out for future games: It is very illegal to share your role PMs. I got word this happened and was very sad at the ones who engaged in that practice. BY THAT TOKEN, asking specific questions about the PM (as in, "What's the last letter to every word of the second sentence of the regular human PM") is tantamount to showing a screenshot and should be just as illegal. This nearly screwed me from the start, and it apparently happened with someone else, too. I was quite disappointed with those who did that.

Now onto the game...

Night 1: Kefit dies. Why? He's a smart cookie, wasn't likely to be guardianed, and had an equal probability of being a special role as everyone else. Sorry, Kefit. We knew it'd suck for you, but we sure did laugh when we thought of it. We just narrowed down all the possibilities to you. =\

Day 1: Confusion amidst the humans. Kefit's death didn't give anyone anything to go on, so there was just the reactions of everyone that gave anyone any ideas. This is what got Snapps and evil on the block. A rules problem allowed Moogy to reveal his role without killing a human. This was great for the wolves because, although chardish didn't die from the vigilante attack, this set the humans back a day. Since they knew they were wrong on Day 1 they could only be sure that they were wrong again on Day 5, which is the earliest the wolves can win.

Night 2: We figured this was the most opportune time to kill chardish. No Tassel because we didn't want to waste a turn and prove his humanity, so we went with the next on the list. We had reason to believe that chardish was or could easily get in with Tassel, and that's an alliance we didn't want.

Day 2: Humans still had nothing to go on from the death, so it was back to looking at the posts. As usual, Qreepy looked suspicious, so he was voted off. I know that I made a very risky move with being the last to vote for him, but I really didn't want any more discussion to go on and him to get off the block.

Behind the scenes: It was during Day 2 that the fake seer idea came about...completely by accident. alain panicked when talking to chardish, got in a tight spot, and figured the best way out was to pull a fake seer stunt. Since chardish believed him and recommended him to Tassel, we thought about it a lot and figured that this was doable, especially since after telling Tassel, he believed alain.

Night 3: Blahblah dies. Same logic here. Smart person, trying to get people together. We obviously didn't consider Tassel since he was in our pockets.

It was at this point that we had this game in our hands and we were just waiting for the end of Day 5.

Day 3: Unfortunately for us, blahblah had spoken to LD before he was to be wolfed (unbeknownst to him) and revealed his role. LD had too many connections, and alain's cover was blown. We couldn't pin anything on blah since we proved his humanity by wolfing him, and once alain posted his "I lose" comment, we couldn't try any Tass/LD business. All the humans voted alain accordingly.

Night 4: Sleepless and I knew this would be extremely hard, so we had to drive a rift into any human alliances by taking out Tassel. Originally, we thought of Snapps, who was, pretty much, a confirmed human to Tassel (because alain "seered" him and it came back wolf). Snapps appeared to be in with the beans, too, so we didn't want the two groups coming together. Also, if we got rid of whorlichan, that's a smaller voting block for the Tassel side. However, getting rid of Tassel was the best possible thing to do, so we took a leap of faith, and our parachutes didn't open.

Day 4: Sleepless gets targeted, as do I. I see the game, so I start talking to Tassel like he talked to me last game and revealed his business. Now, had I know he would post it on the forums, I wouldn't have, but I just wanted to get started on the postgame with him. Because of this, I get killed, Kilga gives up on the game, and the humans come out victorious.

Ultimately, our first big mistake was starting the fake seer bit, but it would have worked extremely well had we not been so unlucky as to wolf blah. I had a great time working with alain and sleepless; they were perfect teammates. alain was excellent at being a human, especially since he's paid attention to all the games, and sleepless was fantastic to just hide in the shadows without anyone noticing. I didn't post as much as I should have, but that was partly because I haven't been awake during the busy hours. Also, I kind of quit watching my words by Day 3, so it wasn't hard to attract suspicion on Day 4. I think we played well until things went all to hell. But, that's what postgame is for.

Sigh.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[CypherToorima]

Bah. I don't like the pm thing. That was low. All well. The wolves played a good game, they just had some bad luck.

[Snapps]

Good job guys.

What I think still was funny is how you guys were like WOLF at me for like 5 pages when its obvious I was human. AND that I never said I had a special role. Lame XD

[GuidoHunter]

Like I finally said, Snapps, you may have been acting slightly wolfish, but it was obvious that you were human and just not watching your words. Same with evilbutterfly, but he was much more defensive, so it took a little more from his angle.

Naturally, I wasn't going to say any more than I did in y'all's defense because y'all were being targeted. The more the humans focus on y'all the less they look at us. Same with Qreepy. Had I been a human, I would have seen that he was being very human. It's just his nature to act/talk like that, but still y'all went after him.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Snapps]

I sure went after him y'all.

Now I get a signature yay :D

[sleeplessdragn]

o, the sig has evaded me again! curse the fates!

my continuing problem is that i am, by far, too paranoid about my posts. i am completely convinced that every single one of you is going to analyze my every word five times over. in fact, everytime i went to post ANYTHING i consulted guido or Alain, because i dont trust myself enough, and even still i started sweating after i pushed the submit button (no joke/sarcasm). this hinders my posting because i am constantly erasing words and replacing them for less conspicuous ones, or trying to get my post timing down to the second. this has cost me a lot and is why i can never post more then 2-3 sentences, unless its a weekend. in fact i should not even be posting this long rite now. also the fact that i am nearly irrelevent to this forum has gotten me in a tough position. to prove this statement i am willing to bet that this post is probably not going to be read. honestly i think tassel has the best position before any TWG even starts. he is smart enough where no one is really willing to allow him to be voted off because he would be important to the humans, and tricky enough to manipulate the entire forum. he is guaranteed life basically for the first two rounds, and then if he is seered human with a building alliance, essentially has already won. i dont see a possibility of beating this, and because i have tried to beat him when he was a human three times now, i think that statement has a little bit of validity.

i am thinking that i will not participate in any more these TWGs, i dont think that i am effective enough, and i find that i cannot hold any zealous drive for winning with 85% of my concentration on school. honestly, i think ill use the time that i would normally devote to TWG (and believe it or not, its about 1 to 1.5 hours per voting day; like i said, too paranoid, and i read into things too much) to producing new music for FFR. i think that it would be more effective usage of my time for myself and the FFR community.

P.S. i just spent five minutes debating whether this post is relevent or not. paranoia sucks, hardcore.

EDIT: a LOT of (sp) : [

[Kilgamayan]

Originally Posted by sleeplessdragn

my continuing problem is that i am, by far, too paranoid about my posts. i am completely convinced that every single one of you is going to analyze my every word five times over.

You're not the only one. I doubt I've ever made a player post in a game and not edited it immediately, even after spending 10 minutes touching it up.

[Tasselfoot]

see.... that is the problem. i go into every game open minded. i'm free spirited, and take many people into my counsel right from the start. from time to time (squeek in game 2, alain in game 5) this has backfired, but more often than not, its the humans who are the ones willing to come forward to work together. the wolves are too paranoid to try anything. so i get my alliance, and i march forward with it on the road to victory.

on another note.... i've lost all faith in Kilga. its nothing personal, but this game can't end until day 5. there are no ands, ifs, or buts about it. sleepless was still alive, and another human was going to die. your ending it earlier gave one extra person a victory. more than anything else, i'm a stickler for rules. (i bend rules, yes... as alot of you know... but i NEVER break them.)

and, yea..... the PM thing, i believe, has been resolved. i talked to both parties involved, and it was similar to zildjian. they were relatively new to the game, and didn't know any better.

i probably have more to add, but i'm tired. i'll post my convos with alain and guido tomorrow. they say everything that is important.

congrats to LD on his first win, roopert on his 3rd... and Whorli for now being 2/2 and the only repeat winner to never lose. not only is she squishy, but she makes an excellent puppet for this game. mucho amor hun. <3 oh yea, i'm now 4/5 with my side winning all 5 games.

[sleeplessdragn]

perhaps if i had more experience as a human i could have done a better job acting as one. un fourtunately the only experience ive had as a human was in the first game, when i was still a noob.

[Tasselfoot]

yea.... i didn't realive that sleepless. i knew you had been a wolf in twg3 and 5... forgot that you were on in twg2 also. my apologies for foiling all of your wolfish attempts.

[Kefit]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

and, yea..... the PM thing, i believe, has been resolved. i talked to both parties involved, and it was similar to zildjian. they were relatively new to the game, and didn't know any better.

Bullshit. There is no way that the person who contacted me could not have known he was breaking the rules, or at least bending them to such an extent that it was completely destroying the nature of the game.

Anyway, something has really bugged me about all of the games here - the seer. Whether it be a fake seer ploy, or a carefully constructed aim alliance, far too much of these games are revolving around the seer. The presence of the master wolf helps a bit, but not nearly enough.

My solution? Try a game with no seer. Have three masons instead. Also, skip the vigilante, as it's a role that more often than not ends up killing a human, and bring back the psychic.

Oh, and I fully agree with what Kilga did in ending the game. There was no point whatsoever to continue it. Nothing would have changed. Sleepless was going to die, and Guido right after him. Who gives a damn if another human would have died - in the end, no one really cares how many games you have managed to live through.

[Tasselfoot]

Kefit... the situation you are referring to is different than the one i am. two humans took SSs of their PMs and sent them to each other.

but, the situation that you mentioned has also been resolved.


and, to tell ya the truth.... the seer really didn't do anything this game (sorry blah)... except that if there was no seer, there would be no fake seer, so the whole game would have been different. i'm all for trying out a game with 3 masons. or, perhaps in TWG8 or TWG9... a 20 person game with 4 wolves, only the wolves are on 2 teams that don't know each other. 2 red wolves and 2 blue wolves.

guess we'll have to wait for LD/Cypher to let us know how TWG6 will be run.

[Kilgamayan]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

i'm a stickler for rules. (i bend rules, yes... as alot of you know... but i NEVER break them.)

Which is why you were a part of the "asking about PM information" incident, right?

Of all the people in the game, you and chardish were the last two I expected to attempt that trick.

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by Kefit

Bullshit. There is no way that the person who contacted me could not have known he was breaking the rules, or at least bending them to such an extent that it was completely destroying the nature of the game.

Anyway, something has really bugged me about all of the games here - the seer. Whether it be a fake seer ploy, or a carefully constructed aim alliance, far too much of these games are revolving around the seer. The presence of the master wolf helps a bit, but not nearly enough.

My solution? Try a game with no seer. Have three masons instead. Also, skip the vigilante, as it's a role that more often than not ends up killing a human, and bring back the psychic.

Oh, and I fully agree with what Kilga did in ending the game. There was no point whatsoever to continue it. Nothing would have changed. Sleepless was going to die, and Guido right after him. Who gives a damn if another human would have died - in the end, no one really cares how many games you have managed to live through.

Kefit, Tassel was talking about the two who shared their PMs. Regarding the people who contacted us, I agree that they knew what they were doing, and hope it doesn't happen again.

I also agree about the seer being a bit too important, and about everything you said about the other roles. We need to mix this up.

And I know I wanted the game to hurry up and end, but Tassel has a point.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[sleeplessdragn]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

yea.... i didn't realive that sleepless. i knew you had been a wolf in twg3 and 5... forgot that you were on in twg2 also. my apologies for foiling all of your wolfish attempts.

thus my fierce determination to take out tass, in multiple games.

[blahblah18]

personally I'm disgusted with Tasselfoot's actions in all these games.. he's cheated or attempted to in every game, and even though its been for my side it really upsets me because there should be some pride in yourself and the other people and ot not ruin the game for everyone else... Tass, I like you, I think you're a good guy and definately smart, but stop with the cheating .... its not worth it. I don't know if he should be allowed to play next game...

Don't possibly say that you're a stickler for the rules.. your PM thing with Chardish, your seeking out PM's... your talking to cypher when you were dead to give the answers... etcetera.... I'm pretty upset about all this

[lightdarkness]

it was never stated that what he did was against the rules. Rather clevor actually.

Will fixed

[flypie743]

clever*

And I agree with blah.

[Squeek]

This had to be the worst game in TWG history. It's a shame that Kilga had to host a whole slew of cheaters this time around with a potentially awesome story.

First of all, my opinion on the Moogy situation. Insta-Lynch is just a term derived from the first host of the game to determine an instant halt in action. Here's the way I looked at it.

In the jail cell, when the group of people there finally select someone, they'd be motioning Boris or whoever over to tell them at that very moment "This is our choice here. Get rid of him". Therefore, the instant a majority is reached, VOTING ENDS. If you don't WANT an instant vote, DO NOT VOTE. Just speculate.

I'd LIKE to participate in TWG VI or VII, but I don't know if I want to play this game if people are going to such extremes to win. What, do we need to call you on a line you can't record in order for you to not be able to give someone 100% proof of your role this time? Man. Keep your role to yourself and play the friggin game.

~Squeek

PS - Tass, you need to stop at 6 wins. It's just stupid trying to play against you.

[Kilgamayan]

Originally Posted by lightdarkness

it was never stated that what he did was against the rules. Rather clevor actually.

It's not clever at all, it's incredibly low.