(TWG) Thread for discussing rzr's permaban from TWG

[the sun fan]

I am making this thread mostly so that there is one singular place for discussion regarding rzr's recent unban request. Please don't discuss it in roundbox's signups thread.

When Red Blaster was permanently banned previously, and requested an unban, Manti made a thread so that we could discuss it in one place, and I like the precedent that this set.

https://www.flashflashrevolution.com...d.php?t=144052

is the thread where the events in question were mostly discussed. I don't think there is a thread for the first time that rzr cheated and was punished, I will ask Manti to post a little bit regarding that in this thread, and either way most of what occurred is readable from one of manti's posts in the above-linked thread.

red blaster's unban (which I think the majority or maybe all of the TWG playerbase can agree was a justified unban) was done by popular vote, and that's not really how I'd like to see this one handled. I have seen a lot of opinions already stated, almost all of them against the idea of rzr returning, but at the least, rzr can use this thread for an attempt at apologizing or explaining, both of which have been absent previously.

Even if rzr is not unbanned, I think it might be good to have a bit more closure on the past here.

tl;dr
rzr is a player who has cheated at TWG twice that we know of, and has insulted or attacked both Haku and choof in manners that are particularly egregious, and was permanently banned in 2016 from FFRTWG as a result. This thread is for discussing his unban request and whether or not players think that he should be allowed to play TWG again.

[the sun fan]

To give my own opinion, I feel like rzr's engagement with the community, with an apology and some explanation, would go a long way towards making me feel like he has changed enough to return. Someone who has cheated once, I can forgive, but twice is probably pushing it for me, even with the fact that the first instance was over a decade ago.

I... could be convinced to allow him to return, but I don't think I am in favor of it, or that I am likely to have my opinion changed. I have talked with the other mods, all of whom have their own respective opinions and to haku (idk how to reach choof) and I have already seen a few player's opinions privately or from zenith in the signups thread.

It doesn't seem like most people are in favor, and I can see that as more than fair, and fairly justified.

[T-Force]

Rzr needs to speak. Both about what happened then - with Haku, choof, and just the community in general - and why he thinks he's worth a third chance now.

Even with FFRTWG's lack of activity, I don't feel comfortable allowing rzr to play again until the past is addressed.

[Xiz]

To even give this individual a platform will further victimize not just those who have suffered, not just provide a space to increase victims, but FFRTWG will become a place of complacency.

It's not just about this person. It's about the morals of the community. If this person is allowed after four big strikes I'm afraid I will not be returning.

[FreezinIce]

Theres no really good way to handle this.

Xiz pretty much hit the nail on the head. Even asking the people who were victims if they ( are ok with rzr returning / have forgiven him ) feels pretty off color and unfair to them.

I have nothing against rzr personally but to protect the integrity of the game some things cant be forgiven. Because TWG is such a personal game, abusing the trust of others is a hard thing to reconcile.

I guess i can wait for rzr to post and see if he brings something to the table that i didnt think of but thats my opinion on this situation

[Shadow_God_10]

As someone who wasn't really around for this... not so lovely history of FFRTWG... I don't think my opinion really matters much in this instance. I'm somewhat familiar with the cheating incident regarding Haku...But was not aware that there was a second one.

I'd like to hear what he's got to say for himself before I say anything else though... If he's going to say anything.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by T-Force

Rzr needs to speak.

This.

There's many things I could say, but it's better to see first where rzr is at.

[XelNya]

As someone who sometimes often crosses lines I'd feel a bit too hypocritical for me to say much but

it seems like a genuine lack of effort has been made here on a particular end

but pretty much where choof would vote here I'd probably cast mine the same

[Wayward Vagabond]

How do you cheat at twg

[Wayward Vagabond]

Alright I read the other thread. I get it but I feel like my opinion on this doesn't matter since I have no skin in the game

[MixMasterLar]

There is a huge part of me that is not ok seeing the community take such a hard stand against toxicity and then turning around to forgive what is easily agreed is some of the worst toxic behavior you can do in a forum. I don't get along with Choof either, but if memeory serves that shit had no right ever coming close to happening.

That said, this all happened 6 years ago. I think especially considering the particular years that the world has lived through doing that period, I am inclined to hear anyone out if they want to convince me they've changed.

insert rzr should post comment here

Anyway if I was asked to vote now I'd probably vote to keep the ban in place.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

There is a huge part of me that is not ok seeing the community take such a hard stand against toxicity and then turning around to forgive what is easily agreed is some of the worst toxic behavior you can do in a forum.

Originally Posted by the sun fan

When Red Blaster was permanently banned previously, and requested an unban, Manti made a thread so that we could discuss it in one place, and I like the precedent that this set.

It's a consistency thing. That's how it has to be. That's all it is. I think your call out here is wrong with due respect mate.

[YoshL]

I will say that it feels a lot like people are arguing with some invisible instigator, when we all pretty much agree that rzr should stay banned - at this point, it's even been a couple days after signups, and like, he's 100% aware of his ban, and he hasn't even bothered to check back in yet. imo that's telling enough.

[mellonxcollie]

What I don't like is the lack of accountability that rzr seems to take even now all these years later. He acknowledges that people won't want to play with him and that he needs to redeem himself, but he doesn't care to mention why. I don't see any apologies or admitting to his wrongdoings.

I personally like to give people chances if they can demonstrate growth, but I haven't seen any of that. I don't think we should even consider giving him another chance. If he gave an actual apology publicly and to some people personally, maybe it could be considered. But even then IDK

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by XelNya

It's a consistency thing. That's how it has to be. That's all it is. I think your call out here is wrong with due respect mate.

It's not meant to be a personal call out
But I'll recognize it comes off as me being a little butthurt. My bad.

But we as a community did take that stand, so if talking about consistency I feel the default answer should be a no.

---

I think YoshL nailed this tbh

[Red Blaster]

I think the difference here is the personal attacks on said players. I got banned for posting my role pm’s in the thread as an immature “fuck you” to those who were lynching me at the time. My actions never took the form of personal attacks on any individual player(s). People change as time goes by, but I think the most important thing to consider here is how Haku and choof, as well as the active player base would feel about them being unbanned.