White Walls pt. 1 [79 or...]

[One Winged Angel]

Discuss here, I'm genuinely curious to see what everyone has to say.

Please be thorough in justifying why you think the file is better suited as 83 or 84 if you should think it's that difficult. I don't just want to have this bumped to 81 and call it a day if there's quite a handful of people that think it's tougher than that.

Yes it's a very spiky file with lots of one handed trilly bs out of nowhere and awkward dore patterns, but how much should those spikes account for difficulty? I didn't want to pull another 'For FFR' type of dealy for this file and ramp up the rating due to one or two sections, only because those spiky sections in WW pt.1 are considerably shorter in notecount than the For FFR ending. One problem section is that one handed 24th trill somewhere past 2k combo, and yes, it's easy to break combo there, but it's only 6 notes. Should the rating be kicked up 3 or more points from where it currently sits due to these very short problem sections? Why or why not?

(please don't make any comparisons to Crowdpleaser lol that's entirely different and you all know this)

But yeah, drop ideas here. Super long and spiky chart, would like some input.

[TC_Halogen]

A large majority of the chart is very tame. With the exception of the nasty one-handed 24th trill at about 2400 combo, and the jumps in the middle of the 24th stream at 1700 forcing some balanced one-handed trilling, the chart structure itself isn't particularly difficult. One of the issues that I personally (and I emphasize personally) have is that the both the notation and the sync of the chart are inconsistent due to changing paces/time signatures. The chart gets visually distracting in certain points too, because certain areas simply should not have 12th/24th notes, yet they retain those rhythms for some reason.

The sync drifts in and out from early (intro) to late (12th notes that introduce the 4th/8th jumptrills early on) and seems to go in and out, and BPM changes themselves are very abrupt -- the left arrow jacks at 1300 actually follow the speed of the previous section for a moment only to slow down considerably. The L/R trill entrance is a pain because you have to speed up quite a bit too.

There are many elements in this file that aren't related to the chart structure that could cause problems, and it requires decent memory to ensure that you don't get in and out of sections at the wrong speed. With all of these elements taken into account, I can see this file at 82.

[awein999]

After playing it a few times and watching the replay the 16th purple jacks/transitions 2/3rds through the song are very physically demanding, more demanding than anything else that is level 79 or even 81 (exception maybe mutant corecore). I don't know exactly what bpm they are but they are FAST. Also those six notes you speak of are tough because of the transition after the six notes into more fast purple stuff even if you can somehow make it through those six notes. Just those two spots isolated would make this chart at least an 82. Now add in the bpm transitions, a couple slower yet tough spots to pa, and length, and I think it's at least 83 and I can see it as 84.

[~Zeta~]

Originally Posted by awein999

Also those six notes you speak of are tough because of the transition after the six notes into more fast purple stuff even if you can somehow make it through those six notes. Just those two spots isolated would make this chart at least an 82. Now add in the bpm transitions, a couple slower yet tough spots to pa, and length, and I think it's at least 83 and I can see it as 84.

I don't see it being 82 alone without those sections. All of the other parts are mid-high FMO difficulty. The 12th jumpjacks are similar speed to Gymnastics (78)/Spoils (73)/Distorted God (I don't remember exactly but I think it does) (71), long one-handed trill is similar to Blooddrunk (76), and the left/right trills aren't fast (don't have a file to really compare to, but it's still FMO difficulty). It's really a mix of FMO stuffed into a long song.

The 24th one handed trill is similar to GGC's (83 which I think is one difficulty higher than it should) and it flows into the rest of the 24ths. There's even a breather before it. Although it's a tough part, a difficulty can't be placed on it just because of that (no one better say anything about fking CP).

I see it fit as an 80-81. Leaning more towards 80, though. 79 for overall difficulty but bumped up since the length and the amount of sections there are. It's not really as spiky as people say but it's still long with some hard spots.

[bballa48]

Ok.

The difficulty in this song seems to be in 4 primary areas:

1) Jump/Trill (basically RWOB pattern) around 1700 combo.
2) Quick one handed trill around 2400
3) Jump glut around 2950
4) General fatigue/length

1) This pattern comes off an already fatiguing left right trill with some extra notes thrown in the middle. Thus, you enter the jump trill fatigued and then have to find a way to balance a quick one handed trill while timing your opposite hand. Needless to say, this is a VERY upper level pattern, something we don't really see until 86s (RWOB) and then some similar stuff in La Camp (Sort of). I think this is easily the biggest difficulty spike out of any song 84 and under sans a few possibilities (Hardkore Atomic at the end, Molto's intro, Integraation [yet it can be cheated/shit lucked]. Thus, this burst alone, according to climax theory (which I love), should put it at a minimum of 82 in my opinion.

2) Not a huge issue combo wise if you cheat it, yet a huge issue if you want to nab the AAA. Minimum contributor to overall difficulty if you ask me, but it has to be considered.

3) This jump glut is gross. I haven't looked at it carefully, but it looks like 84/85 burst type stuff. Maybe some lower 80s have similarly tough bursts, but those songs just don't have much else going on. This pattern reminds me of Phi Identity and Xantha for some reason despite really having nothing in common with those songs. I guess it is similar in that it just punishes you if you don't come into it prepared.

4) The nail in the coffin-- length. There really isn't a whole lot of filler in this song. It is pretty consistently difficult from 400 combo on. There are several awkward color changes in addition to some strange slow downs. All of that combined with almost 7 minutes in length...


I think we have an 85. Yes, I know some of the 85s have some GROSS patterns. It is hard to compare this to something like Rage Template, a song that is just hard on the eyes. Yet, as stated before, it has several major difficulty spikes in addition to consistent difficulty.

I could maybe see 84, but then I look at the other 84s.... they just aren't comparable in my opinion.

[TC_Halogen]

The jump gluts can be compared with Hardkore Atomic, although Hardkore Atomic never exceeds more than seven 12th note jumps in a row.

[EzExZeRo7497]

Most of the difficulty spikes in White Walls Part 1 are one-handed rigid patterns from what I remember.

At 1700 combo there's a RWOB-esque section, but it's MUCH shorter and a lot more manageable overall.

The jumpgluts at 2950 are pretty comparable to Hardkore Atomic, like what AJ said above. The gluts aren't as abrasive though, but it does ramp up the difficulty a little bit. Though, similar gluts can be found in Gymnastics anyway.

The nasty one-handed trill bit can be found in files like GGC as well.

Most of the difficulty spikes are fairly short overall, though most of the file is mid/high-FMO, I really don't see it going any higher than 83, despite its length. I vote 81, but I wouldn't mind seeing it at 82 maximum.

[One Winged Angel]

So we've got 80/81/82/83/85 so far....lol

I seriously have no idea wtf to do with this file because good arguments have been made all around. Initially I didn't want to see this higher than an 81 but the spikes that awein and bballa mentioned obviously aren't 81 material. Those 24th sections are equivalent to 270bpm 16th streams/one handed trills and 8th jumpgluts (with a hand somewhere in there just for good measure). That's 11bpm faster than the 8th jumpgluts and streams in Reality, and arguably more awkward transitions both in and out of these patterns. 11bpm's a pretty big difference -- this is material I'd expect in 83s. Then again, these sections are incredibly short-lived and don't last nearly as long as they should to skew the difficulty upwards.

Ugh...more opinions please, I'm still at 81 right now...wouldn't mind 82 for length, but a lot of this chart is filler. The file pretty much ends after that final jumpglut section at around 2900. The rest of the chart from that point onwards plays like an old 9, if that? I think 81's more appropriate for this reason. I can't really treat this like it's a 4k note marathon file when everything past 3k is zzz.

So yeah, more opinions.

[Hakulyte]

Oh, it's just another case of Crowdpleaser syndrome. It's all about the hardest sections and they do make a major difference. I see =Planet Karma= at 84, so I can't imagine this file under 84. I'm literally mindblown by the hardest sections and even if the rest of the file is an AAA fest, it doesn't matter.

[Mike Weedmark]

What I notice about this file:

- It has nothing near the density-complexity ratio of some 83s like Saddest RMX (how do you compare 1 minute vs 7 though) or Kidney Stone or Betrayal.
- The hardest part of it for me, by far, is the 24th gluts.
- Those gluts remind me of the only parts of Storm Raid (84) I have trouble with.
- However, they also remind me of the only parts of ERx2 (81) I have trouble with. I'm bad at gluts.
- Looking at the current 82s, they seem to follow the pattern of being really easy but having one or two parts that are like +5 from the rest of the song. (Blue Rose, ER Bridge, I hate the 80s)
- The one exception to that is World's End, which has much longer sustained areas of higher difficulty than White Walls imo, and is also a long song.

My vote goes for 82. I just don't think this breaks 82 if WEYX doesn't, and in spite of how stupidly easy 97% of Blue Rose is, White Walls just doesn't have the same awkward finger-jamming spikes that would demonstrate it to be harder. It has the gluts, but they're not what I'm talking about and anyone familiar with Blue Rose knows that.

I could see it as an 83 considering its length, and also the section I view as a slow, inverse La Camp trillstream, just slow enough to require timing rather than mashing. It reminds me of the stupid part of Blooddrunk, and putting THAT smack in the middle of a seven minute song, other than being kind of a dick move, definitely contributes to challenge. There's also how it has that slightly awkward ending from A FLOWER GARDEN... four times. Yeah, I wouldn't argue with this being an 83 or 84. I think the most comparable song is WEYX though.

[iironiic]

If WEYX is settled as an 82, I think White Walls should be higher than an 82. Comparing the two files, White Walls is longer, which calls for more focus and energy. WEYX tests consistency of jumpstream and occasionally rolling. The hardest part of WEYX is pretty much the minijacks near the beginning of the song and some of the awkward jumpstream. White Walls generally challenges a player on one handed patterns (in which some of the patterns are beyond nasty) but the remainder of the file isn't as bad. Because the files aren't drastically more difficult than each other, my vote goes to an 83 (with White Walls being a bit more difficult than WEYX). (This is if 82 is the official rating for WEYX)

Also, the argument about the file being mainly a mid-high FMO is void since CP is rated 91 for the 64th parts themselves while the remainder of the file is pretty much a VC alone. If we want to rate files with difficulty spikes, we should at least be consistent with how we rated other files of that nature in the past.

Two cents.

[Mike Weedmark]

White Walls isn't appreciably longer than WEYX. 6:53 vs 6:50.

There's another part I want to bring up. The part at about 1300 combo that's a split [13]2 jumptrill.

That is NOT trivial. One small section doesn't make the whole chart, but I can't believe that hasn't been mentioned by anyone yet. Those things are stupid hard for me to PA, although they probably won't threaten anyone's FC.

[~Zeta~]

Originally Posted by iironiic

Also, the argument about the file being mainly a mid-high FMO is void since CP is rated 91 for the 64th parts themselves while the remainder of the file is pretty much a VC alone. If we want to rate files with difficulty spikes, we should at least be consistent with how we rated other files of that nature in the past.

Two cents.

Nothing can compare to CP. Ever.

Also, thought Xanadu was an 81 this entire time oop (because jumpstream and everyone finds that piss easy). Definitely an 83 in my mind now in comparison to Xanadu and Planet Karma (which I thought was an 82/3 but never had enough credits to see the new rating lol oop or even come to my mind since I never play it).


EDIT:

@weedmark:

I don't think that section has been brought up because it isn't terrible to hit. It's fast enough to hit without splitting or getting out of time like RWOB's slower version (that speed makes a HUGE difference).

EDIT2: not trying degrade your opinion just giving another focus about it.

[iironiic]

Originally Posted by ~Zeta~

Nothing can compare to CP. Ever.

Also, thought Xanadu was an 81 this entire time oop (because jumpstream and everyone finds that piss easy). Definitely an 83 in my mind now in comparison to Xanadu and Planet Karma (which I thought was an 82/3 but never had enough credits to see the new rating lol oop or even come to my mind since I never play it).

Oops. Wasn't intending to compare White Walls with CP. I was trying to make a point about how files should be rated given that CP is a 91.

[yo man im awesome]

Going with all that's been said here, and in comparison to files like PK, HA, and WEYX, I'm gonna say 82-83 would be best. Yes, a huge amount of the file is filler, but some of those sections are disgusting, enough to warrant the rank of Brutal, I'd say.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

Going with all that's been said here, and in comparison to files like PK, HA, and WEYX, I'm gonna say 82-83 would be best. Yes, a huge amount of the file is filler, but some of those sections are disgusting, enough to warrant the rank of Brutal, I'd say.

Why does it have to mentioned that there's filler? The filler isn't that much less difficult than the rest of it. There are still notes there, so you can still dump goods as easily at any point in the chart. The chart is all around brutal and only lets up at the end. There aren't any breaks. Chart's easily harder than WEYX in any regard. Take whatever WEYX is rated and add one or two.

Comparing this to CP is also rather stupid because that implies there's an unrealistic section in the chart (No one has yet to AAA CP without overlay or ds as far as I know.) Everything in white walls can be done without the use of a special setup. So again, this comparison is stupid as hell.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Bump, please move this file up to 82 at least.

[ssbmchamp]

Personally a song difficulty rating should be based on two things only:

1) Stamina
2) The hardest part in that song (a song is only as difficult as its most difficult part)

After all, these are the 2 main factors when trying to get a AAA on a song, so logically I
think you should rate the hardest part of this song (not parts) and then factor in a stamina rating to come up with a final difficulty rating.

[rushyrulz]

I vote 83 since there's awkward difficulty spikes + length

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by ssbmchamp

Personally a song difficulty rating should be based on two things only:

1) Stamina
2) The hardest part in that song (a song is only as difficult as its most difficult part)

After all, these are the 2 main factors when trying to get a AAA on a song, so logically I
think you should rate the hardest part of this song (not parts) and then factor in a stamina rating to come up with a final difficulty rating.

Stamina is an acceptable factor, but judging only by the hardest part is very bad, especially if the hardest part of a song is only slightly harder than the average difficulty of the file.

In any case, you should take multiple accounts of things, like stamina both on a physical and mental (length) level, physical pattern construction, extremes within particular patterns, frame placement (inconsistent frame placements at certain BPMs force you to be more accurate), difficulty of full comboing with respectable PA (or 0 boos), etc.