Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums > Gaming > Other Forum Games

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-4-2018, 07:42 AM   #1
Kawaii Desu Ne?
Sectional ModeratorFFR Veteran
reuben_tate's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Kawaiian Island~
Age: 27
Posts: 4,130
Default Nomic: A Forum-Game of Self-Amendment [Signups]

Hey guys! I've been looking into this game for a bit and it seems kinda interesting, so I was hoping to host a game and see how it turns out

The tl;dr: Nomic is a game of ever-changing rules and the entire gameplay revolves are creating, discussing, and voting on new rules for the game. Points are awarded by rolling a 'die' on your turn and the first player with enough points wins! However, the new rules that are created can be about anything, i.e., you can make rules that change how voting on rules works, rules that change how points are earned, rules that change the win condition entirely, the possibilities are endless!

I am not the original creator of the game, that credit goes to philosopher Peter Suber who created the game in 1982. I will be borrowing from his initial ruleset listed below (more information here). I want to make the gameplay suitable as a forum game and to make this game desirable to play by other forum game players here (particularly the TWG folk~) so with that in mind, I have modified Suber's rules slightly to make the game a bit more discussion-oriented and to make sure that the game length does not go on indefinitely. Rule additions/modifications are in bold and any removal of rules or parts of rules are striked out. Since this is just the sign-up period, I am open to further modifications to the initial ruleset, just let me know.

This is not a rule but moreso a guideline. As a host for this game, feel free to add/modify/remove rules regarding some kind of intervention of me as a host (such as rolling a die, other rng things, private voting, etc). Just know that I will primarily be updating the game once per day at around 10pm server time (and will schedule the phases of the game to match up accordingly). I might be able to update more frequently, but I can't promise it, thus, rules that require host intervention on a whim will probably be difficult to coordinate. Alternatively, for things that require intervention from a non-player other than myself (such as using an rng to make a fair 'die roll' for someone), one may seek to create/amend rules that allow for such happenings.

Immutable Rules
101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable).

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

105. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes otherwise such players that haven't voted at the end of the voting phase will receive -5 points

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down posted in the thread before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. In order for votes towards an amendment to the original proposed rule to be considered, the player that originally posted their proposed rule during the rule-proposal phase must formally propose such an amendment. These formal amendments may be made as many times during the voting phase, however, a formal amendment to the proposed rule change cannot be made in the last 10 minutes of the voting phase. Any votes made before an amendment will be counted towards the newly amended rule proposal A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points (or achieving the most points after 15 turns)to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

117. The host has the right to remove players from the game at his discretion if their inactivity or behavior starts to become a major hindrance to the game.

Mutable Rules
201. To determine player order, the initial ordering of the players will be randomized and players shall alternate given this order Players shall alternate in clockwise order, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted, otherwise, those that don't propose a rule (within the rule-proposal phase) when it's their turn to do so will receive -10 points and the rule-proposal phase for the next player will begin. All players begin with zero points.

In mail and computer games, players shall alternate in alphabetical order by surname.

202. One turn consists of two three parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and (2) having it voted on, and (2)(3) throwing one die once and adding the number of points on its face to one's score (this will be taken care of by the host)

The first part (the rule-proposal phase) will last for a total of 24 hours.
The second part (the voting phase) will also last for total of 24 hours.
Unless the die roll affects the immediate playability of the game, the die roll phase can be assumed to occur instantaneously (otherwise, players must wait for the host to roll the die).

In mail and computer games, instead of throwing a die, players subtract 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiply the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)

203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each.

205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

207. Each player always has exactly one vote.

208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points.

In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points.

209. At no time may there be more than 25 30 mutable rules.

210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates.

The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or computer.

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players after the judge has made their judgement. If the judge does not arrive at a judgement before the end of the voting phase or rule-proposal phase, then the player preceeding the judge in the playing order becomes the new judge and the current phase is extended by a period of 24 hours.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. In the case that someone moves to overrule the judge's judgement, and if by the end of the phase, there are still players who have not voted on the overruling, then those people will be counted as if they voted for the overruling and the current phase will be extended by a period of 24 hours. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

214. Players must post their vote in the thread. Players may change their vote as many times as they want during the voting phase but their final vote is the one that is counted at the end of the voting phase.

215. In the event that a winner hasn't been determined after the completion of 20 turns, the winner will be determined by the person who has the most points (including the points awarded at the end of the 20th turn).


216. The host will be responsible for the following: (1) rolling the die and keeping track of points in the OP, (2) keeping track of the current rules in the OP, (3) reminding players when phases have begun/ended/extended (these are not official and even these reminders are suspect to judgement), (4) pointing players to particular rules if players have a question about the game (however, the process for arguing about whether a move is legal and such will be dealt with via the judgement system indicated above), (5) any (reasonable) forms of host intervention that the players request in the form of a rule proposal/amendment.


217. All communications regarding the current game will take place in the thread and only in the thread.


218. To separate discussion from formal motions, the following formal motions must be made using [twgv] tags and in the form "type of motion: motion description". Below are the types motions available for the game:
-Propose Rule (example: Propose Rule: amend rule 201 to state that Charu always has his turn skipped)
-Propose Amendment (use this to propose an amendment to the current proposed rule being discussed)
-Vote (use this to vote for the current rule proposal)
-Overruling Vote (use this to vote for or against the overruling of a judge)
-Invoke Judgement (use this to invoke judgement to start the judgement process)
-Judgement (use this as a judge to declare your judgement)


219. During the rule-proposal phase, only the player whose turn it currently is, may post. The exception to this is if a player invokes judgement during the rule-proposal phase, then discussion regarding the judgement is allowed. Once a rule has been proposed during the rule-proposal phase, then the voting phase may immediately begin (the remaining time from the rule-proposing phase will be added to the voting phase).


220. During the voting phase, if a unanimous vote has been reached and if judgement is not invoked in the 30 minutes thereafter, then (assuming the dice roll does not impact the immediate playability of the game), the voting phase will conclude and any remaining time in the voting phase will be added to the rule-proposal phase of the next players turn.


221. If at any point in time, the amount of time remaining for a phase exceeds 48 hours, 24 hours will be removed from the amount of time remaining for that phase.

As for participants, I am looking for at least 5 participants (not including myself). The game can support more players of course.

AMA: http://ask.fm/benguino

Not happening now! Don't click to join!

Originally Posted by Spenner View Post
(^)> peck peck says the heels
Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX
And god made ben, and realized he was doomed to miss. And said it was good.
Originally Posted by Zakvvv666
awww :< crushing my dreams; was looking foward to you attempting to shoot yourself point blank and missing
reuben_tate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-5-2018, 04:33 AM   #2
RIP Storn D0-D0
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
storn42's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
Default Re: Nomic: A Forum-Game of Self-Amendment [Signups]

in sounds like alot of fun.

Originally Posted by Xiz View Post
"I think storn is town but he doesn't have a shirt on" - Roundbox
Originally Posted by the sun fan View Post
I have beat my meat to storn's posts no less than four times

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe View Post

storn42 is offline   Reply With Quote

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:35 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution