Another Skillboost: True Vertex Gamma AA

[Staiain]

Lol oh my god

[omega220]

Originally Posted by HST

Lmfao.

Amazing score!

[gold stinger]

a really good jackhammer goes at about 900bpm-1100bpm compared to 4ths on 4/4 timing. The fact that you can hit 300bpm 16th stream puts you above the speed of a jackhammer.

also:



It was foretold.

[rCaliberGX]

Originally Posted by gold stinger

a really good jackhammer goes at about 900bpm-1100bpm compared to 4ths on 4/4 timing. The fact that you can hit 300bpm 16th stream puts you above the speed of a jackhammer.

you have 4 fingers moving though, better comparison would be vibrating 250bpm 16th jacks or something

[Jimmymi]

Originally Posted by rCaliberGX

you have 4 fingers moving though, better comparison would be vibrating 250bpm 16th jacks or something

No one can do that consistently though, heck, no one can even vibrate that fast.

[HST]

if you really wanted to you could map your spread setup closer together so you can just use one hand to vibrate on all keys etc.

[Wafles]

^ Switching hands like that would be no different than using double setup or something

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by Wafles

^ Switching hands like that would be no different than using double setup or something

using 8 keys isnt legit, using 1 hand on 4 spread keys is

[Wafles]

Maybe I just have weird opinions about this stuff since I also don't think mirror is legit haha

[yo man im awesome]

Originally Posted by Wafles

Maybe I just have weird opinions about this stuff since I also don't think mirror is legit haha

Well look at it this way:

Using mirror does in fact change the way a file is played from a standpoint that the arrows are placed differently, and you're essentially changing the file. I can understand that.

Doing what was suggested earlier is just another style of playing. That's like calling spread setup entirely illegitimate since it's different from the originally intended arrow keys. Using 1 hand in 4 keys for that one spot is just another way to hit a pattern. The file isn't being altered, and you're not using any sort of outside interference (cheating aka Double Setup, botting, etc.).

[HST]

warning... tl;dr post incoming

I think instead of outright banning double-setups / mirror / shuffle / etc., you could just post scores in a separate category. I think at this point StepMania keyboard play has reached critical mass and it wouldn't hurt to explore other modes of play.

Over the years keyboard play has gone through many changes.
Back when DDR East Invasion's Tournamix contest was around people didn't really accept keyboard files in the way we do now. They were demeaned and were dubbed "karaoke files".

It took a few years for keyboard play to become widespread and even then people usually played one-handed / index. Spread eventually... well... spread.

On the topic of modifiers...
CMODs used to be frowned upon but for some reason now it's accepted. Doesn't removing bpm changes also ruin the original feel of the file? At what point do we draw the line? Why do we allow mines yet bpm changes are okay to get rid of? Why not get rid of holds?

If I had to make a standard for keyboard play for purposes of playing for score I think I would go with...

Some rough standards list for StepMania keyboard play v0.00000001 02/09/2014

... start of HST's standard list of acceptable modifiers for the purposes of scoring ...
Speed: Xmods only unless the chart has no bpm changes / warps/ stops/ etc. in which case both Xmods and Cmods are acceptable.

Arrow Move: Boost, Brake, Expand, Wave, etc. are optional.

Appearance: Hidden, Sudden, Blink, etc. are optional.

Turn: Left, Right, Mirror, Shuffle, Supershuffle are optional. Supershuffle is a little tricky if the freeze arrow bug still exists. If it does then I would put a disclaimer when posting scores with it.

My reasoning for allowing all turn modifiers is that you are not changing the total amount of notes a chart has. While Shuffle might stray from the original chart patterns, you are not taking away the total number of notes the original chart had. Most of the time shuffle will give you more difficult patterns. But shuffle can also give you some favorable ones. Yes, it can make certain charts "easier" but again, the total number of notes stays the same and it's still up to the player to execute and score well. A good shuffle for one player might not necessarily be favorable for another player. Plus, it makes playing for score more interesting and can break up the monotony of the default chart which I'm sure by now people have developed some bad habits for.

Scroll: Up to player preference. Normal and Reverse are the usual but Cross, Alternate, and Centered are also fine.

Cut: Little, Wide, Big... etc. are prohibited since they remove actual notes from the chart.

Dark: Dark, Blind, Cover... these are all optional.

Freeze Arrows and Rolls: Freeze Arrows and Rolls are enabled. Twister, Planted, and Holdrolls are prohibited.

Jump: No Jumps, No Hands, No Quads are all prohibited.

Other notes: Flip / Invert are optional. Drunk, Dizzy, Tornado, similar effects are optional. BMRize is prohibited. Assist Tick prohibited during actual scoring run.

Important notes for any score posted:

It's important that we know the conditions the score was achieved in.
We need to know...

What playstyle?: one-handed, index, 3-fingered, spread, double-setup, etc.

Playing with a normal spread setup changed the way charts were made. Imagine if double-setups (or higher!) were allowed... there could be a way to make files with those setups in mind!

What rate?: 1.5 music rate, 2.0, 0.5, etc...

Judge settings: J4/L4? Or did you use J7 to simulate "ridiculous" timing?

.ini settings: do not change this from the default!

If this information can be tagged for every score then it shouldn't matter how you play as long as you can categorize the scores separately.
... end of file ...

tl;dr: My honest opinions on the state of keyboard play in StepMania. I'm pretty sure there are some people out there that share similar sentiments but don't really want to express their opinions on the matter. General rule of thumb is that we shouldn't discourage different ways of playing. Rather, we should just let it rock and categorize special cases (i.e scores that deviate from a set standard such as the one I have roughly laid out) separately so that we do not leave out certain aspects of the game!

[qqwref]

HST, I don't know how long you've been away from the keyboard community, but:
- a lot of people step files with BPM changes to provide different arrow colors or better sync the song, and these files are NOT intended to be played on xmod
- in fact, almost all files are intended to be played on cmod, and files that are intended to be played on xmod are either marked that way or part of an xmod pack
- left/right/shuffle/supershuffle are considered to change the chart enough that that it must be mentioned; mirror isn't mentioned but there are occasional debates about it
- almost every mod you mentioned except turn, scroll, and "no mines" are nearly never used by good players; the stuff that makes playing easier is forbidden (except no hands/quads for indexers) and the stuff that makes playing harder will always be mentioned if it's being used... of course this all shows up in the screenshot anyway
- spread is the default playstyle, anything else will be mentioned
- music rate is always mentioned, if it isn't in the screenshot
- j4/l4 is the default, anything else is mentioned, not mentioning a different j/l setting is considered cheating

[.Layne.]

hot sexy tawhawwww

[midare]

how have your hands not shattered into a million arrow-shaped pieces. "speed" doesn't even begin to describe.

[Staiain]

oh hi there midare

nah as much as it might look contradicting i take it relatively easy so i never have hand pains or issues haha

[gamesterx23]

Originally Posted by Staiain

oh hi there midare

nah as much as it might look contradicting i take it relatively easy so i never have hand pains or issues haha

How is that possible?

My left wrist feels like its swolen all the time from playing stepmania years ago, lol.

U lucky

[Staiain]

Just knowing when to quit before overdoing/trying too hard is a good way to avoid problems. I don't know why but still I'm one of the only top players who never had any hand issues or pains from this game or had to take breaks because of it, I just played by heart without worry to be honest.

[HST]

@ggwref: yeah all good points. I just want to explore more of stepmania is all I guess. I'm actually in the middle of some sm5 only experiments :V

@Staiain: Agreed. Stepmania / rhythm games are workouts in the end. Gotta rest muscles and let them rebuild etc.
I know some people who have had to get hand surgery from playing too hard at notesmash games heh. You can't really rush skill boosts. Unless you have or had Dynamo's problem where a crappy PC suppressed your power levels...

or j1/l1 ... ini hax and claim they are legit

[Staiain]

Yeah Stepmania definitely became a spread game + cmods, where bpm changes are used for expression or visual appearances rather than difficulty spikes.

As for mirror, i sometimes use it but only if i have legit horrible habits, i never use mirror for gaining better scores or the purpose of making something easier, I'd rather put the extra effort into getting the score non-mirrore than making it simpler with it. I know some players use mirror for stuff like SYSTEM intentionally but I would personally never do that and I frown upon that myself tbh.

[Sidek]

i agree HST.