The Witness

[Reincarnate]

I found the motherlode:

Mountain spoilers below

Tried to find the source that turns on the power to the dude's panel at the bottom of the mountain... traced the wire back, found the switch, and holy moly, tons of puzzles in here.

[Soundwave-]

Originally Posted by Reach

Soundwave, I'm pretty sure the puzzle you're referencing in the village is 100% impossible. It's actually very easy to show that it is unsolvable.

It is, indeed, impossible without a different perspective.

Go try the greenhouse if you're still stuck, it might have some answers.

Or, ya know. A guide. Turns out that works pretty well too.

[YoshL]

I think I know what puzzle you're talking about mentioning

the 3 divided by 2 thing. It's super dastardly what they did for that - it's not impossible, but sorry leonid

[Soundwave-]

Finished my first run, going for challenge now.

[VisD]

Buying this after I sell enough of the shit in my steam inventory to pay for it lol

Anyone who's played The Talos Principle and this: without spoilers, in your estimation, how does this match up?

[Reincarnate]

VisD: I made a post here that might help.

[Soundwave-]

Originally Posted by VisD

Buying this after I sell enough of the shit in my steam inventory to pay for it lol

Anyone who's played The Talos Principle and this: without spoilers, in your estimation, how does this match up?

Puzzle difficulty: Considerably harder.

Story: Wait, there was supposed to be a story to this?

Overall experience: Worse, but still enjoyable enough.

That's just my opinion. If you have a strong disposition towards strange, colorful environments filled with puzzles, I'd even argue it's a must buy.

[Reach]

Well, having basically ‘completed’ the game (I'm around 400 complete main puzzles and 30ish optional ones) I feel like writing a ‘review’for this game and getting my thoughts out on paper. Mostly because it is one of the more intriguing games I’ve ever had the experience of playing and there is just so much to say about it.

Tons of spoilers below. Readers beware.

Though VisD, Talos is my favorite puzzle game ever, and I would rate this game quite highly, so you will probably enjoy it.




For starters, before I get into the meat of what I want to say about this game, I’ll talk about my history with puzzle games. I’m a big fan, and I’ve played a lot of puzzle games over the years. My favorites are probably The Talos Principle and Portal 2, so obviously I’m a big fan of the first person puzzle game. An example of a puzzle game I absolutely despise would be Notpron or any puzzle resembling it. I like puzzles that are wholly consistent in their nature, requiring no additional information or information inconsistent with the rules presented thus far. More specifically I suppose I really don’t like spending more time trying to figure out what the author is intending for you to do. I much rather devote all of my thinking to the logic of the puzzle itself.

There’s a lot in the Witness that I absolutely loved. There are also parts of it that I really didn’t like. All and all it fell together into a package that I would consider one of the coolest puzzle experiences I’ve ever had, but it wasn’t without its hiccups along the way.

On the puzzles:

I have to say that the game presents some of the most innovative and genius puzzle design that I’ve seen in a game in a long time. With how many puzzle games are on the market nowadays, it’s impressive that this game was able to integrate so many unique and brain busting puzzles into the same product. Overall, the variety of puzzles is rather outstanding and extremely impressive.

The puzzles are also extremely difficult on average, creating one of the most difficult puzzle experiences I’ve had to date. This, however, did have some inconsistency for me and there were points where the game deviated significantly from what I would consider ‘fun’.

One issue I had with the game is that sometimes either the rules weren’t apparent, or when you did figure out the rules the game was often content to throw them out the window in a gimmicky way in order to artificially create a sense of difficulty.

Most of the environmental puzzles, for example, rely heavily on you not knowing what queues you’re looking for. The tree puzzle, for example, derives its difficulty entirely from you not noticing the apple. These puzzles were completely innocuous, but there are other examples of more annoying consequences of this feature. In the Monestary, for example, it’s immediately obvious that the puzzle wants environmental cues. But, what cues? I quickly figured out it must have something to do with the windows in the building, but I completely missed the extremely subtle lock and key around the bonsai tree. This lead me on a wild goose chase trying to figure out what cues I’m supposed to be using for the puzzle, which eventually lead me to reason that I must have to open the windows from some other point in the world.

This problem comes up quite a lot in different ways. Once you figured out the gimmick in an area, most of the puzzles become extremely easy. To counteract this, the developer tries to throw you off, but sometimes it feels more annoying than clever. A shadow shortcut in the woods looked more like a graphical anomaly than something I was supposed to reason out. The branch on the ground in the monestary…really? What the fuck was up with the tucan sound in the jungle? And the timed puzzle in the treehouse that baits you into trying to do the runaround? Most of these gimmicks distracted from the puzzle immersion the game had created, giving you more the feeling that the game was trying too hard to be difficult.


Finally, I liked the concept of the perspective puzzles hidden throughout the world, but in practice they were annoying. It was really fun exploring the world looking for them once you realized that they were there, but on the other hand they drove me crazy when I saw them but they wouldn’t activate. Some of them require really tedious positioning and won’t activate from seemingly obvious and clear locations. I found them difficult often in positioning alone and would have to waste large amounts of time trying to get myself in the right position for the damn thing to work.

On an open world:

There are plusses and minuses to an open world puzzle system. Compare the game to The Talos Principle, for example. With a closed world hub system, each puzzle is logically contained. You always know that all of the elements required to solve the puzzle are inside the boundaries of the puzzle itself.

This isn’t the case with an open world, and one of the problems I have with this system is that I found myself regularly asking myself “Can I solve this puzzle?”. In retrospect, having finished the game, the answer is usually yes, but as someone who doesn’t like spoilers, early on in the game I didn’t know and this lead me to leaving a lot of areas prematurely, figuring I must have to do something else before I can continue to progress in the area.

The essence of this problem rears its head multiple times in the game. On the beach, for example, I had then learned my lesson and was convinced I would find the solution in the environment nearby. After exhausting the area, I then assumed the puzzles were related to the drawings I had found in boxes earlier. I simply assumed I would unravel the hints to this puzzle elsewhere on the island. It wasn’t until a shadow caught the screen at just the right angle, randomly, when I realized how easy this part of the game was. To me, that takes away from the puzzle experience and makes it more of an annoyance. Had this puzzle been self contained in a non open world scenario, it would have been much more fun.

Another issue was the progression in and of itself during puzzle sections. While the game is open ended, you have to complete the puzzles themselves in an area linearly. While this is intended to teach you the rules of the puzzles themselves, sometimes I just really didn’t want to solve a puzzle. I just couldn’t see the solution, and it would have been more fun to move on. Also, because the puzzles were lined up the way they were, most of the time there didn’t feel like any tangible reward for finishing puzzles, so working long and hard on the more tedious puzzles in a section did not feel very rewarding and it felt like more of an annoyance to complete them than something I enjoyed. “Congratulations, now that you’re done getting fucked by that puzzle get fucked by a bunch more 8) “

Immersion:

Open world in and of itself was fun in many regards. Being able to bop from one area to another, exploring the huge island and all of its secrets was one of the best parts of the game and integral to the experience. Though, it also had another downside; mixing and mashing rules from various parts of the island required you to remember the rules, which was extremely easy when you were playing for hours at a time, but not if you were playing casually.

I had the experience of playing an extended session on Saturday, which was extremely immersive. The game plays very well to long sessions, as you can easily piece everything together and there are a lot of epiphany moments that work very well.

However, the game plays…poorly, casually. I also had a few sessions where I jumped into the game only to play for 30-60 minutes and the experience was significantly worse at those times. I couldn’t get immersed, I found myself forgetting puzzle rules and wanting to return to other areas so I could refresh myself on the rules…but then the game has no fast travel. The boat is really slow and walking from one side of the island to the other is really annoying after you’ve been everywhere, especially just to refresh yourself on rules. By the time you figure out what you were trying to do, you have to stop playing if you’re playing casually. The game could really have used some sort of fast travel after you’ve done the tutorials in areas.

Another thing that broke the immersion for me was a lack of story and music. I know some people absolutely loved this, but I would have liked more on that end of things. I didn’t notice the audio logs until late in the game, and at that point I really didn’t care and they were more annoying than anything else. And the theatre in the windmill…I think it would have been more fun if there were story bits in each of the areas of the game that tied in clues about the mysterious island as you went. As it stands, most things in the game are completely unexplained AFAIK and it could have been a lot more interesting to uncover clues about a backstory as you progressed. The world is practically begging for this approach.


Overall:

When I did have the time to sit down and really sink my teeth into the game, it was a ton of fun. A lot of the puzzles blew my mind with how creative they were, and overall it was very rewarding to finish areas and activate another one of the lasers.

I think I personally would have liked the game more though if it sacrificed some difficulty during the main quest by removing a lot of the gimmick puzzles and saved them for an optional area at the end of the game (e.g. like the ship area). I think most of the puzzles in the game are good puzzles, but I feel that there are quite a few that are inappropriate in where they are placed in the game and they break the immersion and create a number of problems.

It also could have been more casual friendly, with fast travel and ways of quickly revisiting rules or attempting other puzzles in an area rather than beating your head off a single option. E.g. in many areas of the game, once the rule is learned, there is a series of puzzles that must be solved that all use the same theme. I see no reason why you couldn't open all of these puzzles at once, allowing the player to attempt different puzzles, which can often spark ideas on how to solve the one you're stuck on. For one of the harder puzzles in the game, I actually saw the solution after watching Day9 fuck a different but related puzzle up repeatedly. It just clicked, so allowing for more perspectives and learning options would have helped.

[Soundwave-]

Originally Posted by Reach

This game is great.
<wall of reasons this game isn't all that great>
This game is great.

This is what I see in your post.

Maybe I'm just cynical and/or had the last straw with the games gimmicks, but I just felt more and more separated from the game, overall making this the worst puzzle experience I've had. Granted, that doesn't say too much badly about the game considering the high bars of both Portal games, and Talos.

I'm also probably just a little bit salty that I'm not a creative thinker and stood no chance against some of the environment puzzles.

All in all, I'd sum up my experience with this:
If there was a percentage bar, I'd be significantly more inclined to have put a bit more effort into experiencing the game.

Thinking about it, that says more about me as a gamer than the game, but hey.

If you like puzzles a lot, this games got some dank ones.

Otherwise, it ain't worth the experience, since the game does a lot to accidentally detract from it.

[Reach]

Should read: Great in many respects, bad in others, and I felt like highlighting the bad because I didn't see it discussed in any of the reviews that I read. A couple places gave it a 10/10 but I just can't agree with that.

I would give it an 8.5/10. If I had to describe it quickly I would say it's basically Dark Souls puzzle edition.

If I went on about the stuff I liked it would need a tldr :P

At the very least at least something like http://imgur.com/rDnnf4K wasn't in the game lmao

Which goes to highlight something I've realized; making these puzzles hard is extremely easy, but solving them is difficult. That inequality is what makes balancing a game like this so difficult.

[Reincarnate]

This record player puzzle is kicking my ass. The area with the first-person maze with the random wall-shutters and the triangle puzzles hidden out of sight... for fuck's sake this eats up almost all of my time. By the time I reach the pillars (assuming I even make it), I am running on fumes and I barely have time to do anything. Such a fucking aggravating section.

[Soundwave-]

Originally Posted by Reach

At the very least at least something like http://imgur.com/rDnnf4K wasn't in the game lmao

Which goes to highlight something I've realized; making these puzzles hard is extremely easy, but solving them is difficult. That inequality is what makes balancing a game like this so difficult.

Completely aside from your point, that puzzle seems to give too many hints as to its solution, just from everything being packed so close together... that is assuming it is possible.

That being said...

I never really thought of that, but I'd expect for such an acclaimed designer, that this would be evident and compensated for.

It seems strange that for somebody who in the past seems to have been quite oriented towards looking forward in their work, he's looking back and ignoring all the ways the design is pretty evidently fucked.

I also can't say I've ever experienced the pride of completing a project first hand, perhaps it's more blinding than I give credit for.

[leonid]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

This record player puzzle is kicking my ass. The area with the first-person maze with the random wall-shutters and the triangle puzzles hidden out of sight... for fuck's sake this eats up almost all of my time. By the time I reach the pillars (assuming I even make it), I am running on fumes and I barely have time to do anything. Such a fucking aggravating section.

It does not require extreme dexterity.

[Reincarnate]

Dexterity isn't exactly the problem.

Anyway, whatever score I was giving this game before, I am subtracting 1 for this section alone.

[leonid]

Another hint

It's not supposed to be a random scavenger hunt. There is a quick way

[Reincarnate]

Yeah, I had found out that:

The table is a map of the upcoming live-maze.

Which is great but still not enough for me time-wise. I can't memorize the layout quickly enough, and I lose too much time making drawings or taking pictures. The fastest method was asking my gf to make a drawing of the dots and path as I solved it, but I felt bad asking her to do that after like 4 failed runs.

In the end, I just have to get faster and stop sucking so much at the last three stages (impossible triplets, triangle puzzles, pillar puzzles).

[leonid]

well if it makes you feel better I failed 6 times running around randomly bashing myself into walls

[Soundwave-]

Finished a challenge run, with a final score of 457 +7 +0. Was a little bit frustrating due to cylindrical black dot puzzles being stupid and the part where the randomly generated puzzles vary widely in difficulty and aren't guaranteed to be possible, but hey.

I only have three questions:

1) What the hell was up with all the background stuff? I get the whole "'Why are you here?' is the question." thing but it really didn't work very well at all in my opinion.

2) That extra paper. Ya know, the one that isn't for a video. What's that for?

3) When will we get told/datamine exactly how many puzzles there are? The highest score currently is 523 +135 +6, but I'm not convinced...

[leonid]

Found some more symbols. Now at +122 +2.... The search continues..

[leonid]

I'm done~

cba to find audio clips I think I reaped everything I'd enjoy from this game and can move on. Maybe some challenge runs