What's happening in here?

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Synthlight

(read all the responses regarding this situation) Yeah, people get stupid sometimes. It happens to me also. I passed on a very militant like style of protection here at the site that was leftover from the commercial days. It's good in general to "protect the brand" but maybe the sentences are a little harsh? (maybe I am ignorant?). We now have a much better method for backups than we have had in the past, which means we can always roll back if needed. I would feel differently if 10-15 salaries depended on the success of the site.

From the mouth of the man himself:
The site is operating as if there are 10 salaried positions contributing to development and community coordination.



But there aren't.



Am I really the only person who sees the massive disconnect here?

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

It wasn't just about disclosing the location, he wasn't actively engaging in the group. Then there was a lot of stuff that followed that I'm not going to get into in the forums.

Let's just kill off the topic by stating it got pretty teenage angst-y on my end of things after all was said and done.

I very much regret those things but it's a relieving notion to see that with time comes possible redemption.

/moving on to ffr growth/

[justin_ator]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

/moving on to ffr growth/

This is actually why I didn't post my reply to AJ's post about myself and the Skype group... haha. Somewhat relevant but not enough so to derail that direction.

I did dumb stuff, staff did dumb stuff, we all did dumb stuff. But behind all that dumb stuff I did want to help the site and felt like my contributions were being either ignored or downplayed to the point that I felt like I shouldn't really bother making suggestions anymore, which lead to my inactivity here ultimately.

[MinaciousGrace]

so did anyone figure out what the point of the batch is yet or is it one of those things that's just done because that's how it's always been done and nobody stops to think about it despite it being ridiculously stupid and inefficient

[Synthlight]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

From the mouth of the man himself:
The site is operating as if there are 10 salaried positions contributing to development and community coordination.

That doesn't mean we need salaried positions, just that it is operating as such. Even if we were to put up ads right now, we are looking at about $5/month per staff member. Also, marking songs as "legacy" means nothing from a legal standpoint. Unless something has changed, when labels or artists gave us permission to use their music in our game, they gave us permission. There were no gotcha's regarding advertising and permission. Has this changed?

Would all of you really want lots of added stress that comes from a commercial operation with very little cash flow? We would need to see something on the level of about 3000 concurrent users to hit a cash flow level that would be respectable.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace

so did anyone figure out what the point of the batch is yet or is it one of those things that's just done because that's how it's always been done and nobody stops to think about it despite it being ridiculously stupid and inefficient

The batch is just the tip of inefficient things going on lmao
These things worked a lot better when we had someone like Tass who was paid, full-time, and committed to coordinating everything.


This leaves two very obvious options to fix this:
1. Change how everything on the site works (as we can see, clearly a very difficult task)
2. Start paying people again.

[Trumpet63]

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace

so did anyone figure out what the point of the batch is yet or is it one of those things that's just done because that's how it's always been done and nobody stops to think about it despite it being ridiculously stupid and inefficient

I tend to agree, although not in so many words. I don't fully understand why we think curation is so important.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Synthlight

Also, marking songs as "legacy" means nothing from a legal standpoint. Unless something has changed, when labels or artists gave us permission to use their music in our game, they gave us permission. There were no gotcha's regarding advertising and permission. Has this changed?

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=124197

The above thread, the gold standard for obtaining permission, specifies "FFR is a free-to-play website and does not earn any money from these songs."
Every permission I have gotten has used a variant of that email. Artists are agreeing with that condition in mind. I know I am not the only person who uses this form when contacting artists.
If this isn't what you intended, then I can personally assure you, many of the files we have in the game are completely illegal.
This is something you need to explain much more clearly.

How do you want this site run?

Originally Posted by Synthlight

We would need to see something on the level of about 3000 concurrent users to hit a cash flow level that would be respectable.

We used to have that.

[Synthlight]

Originally Posted by Trumpet63

I tend to agree, although not in so many words. I don't fully understand why we think curation is so important.

Curation is everything. This site is nothing without it's history and it's history helps it move forward. Beyond the value of identity, think about it from an SEO standpoint. There are 280,000+ links back to FFR right now in Google. Strong brand recognition. We have ever advantage in the world to springboard if we want to.

[hi19hi19]

Zageron, and now Synth, have both asked the community what they would do differently if they were put in control of the site.

I have to reverse that question:

The site is clearly declining in activity.
People are unsatisfied.
What would you do to make this site vibrant again? What is the vision from the top?

Is there one at all?

[Frank Munoz]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Zageron, and now Synth, have both asked the community what they would do differently if they were put in control of the site.

I have to reverse that question:

The site is clearly declining in activity.
People are unsatisfied.
What would you do to make this site vibrant again? What is the vision from the top?

Is there one at all?

I feel it is unnecessary to really turn the question around on them. They obviously want to hear different viewpoints and takes on progressing forward from the community itself. Even if they don't have a "vision" would hearing them say so have any effect?

Not shutting down your turnaround, just my take on it.

[Synthlight]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=124197

The above thread, the gold standard for obtaining permission, specifies "FFR is a free-to-play website and does not earn any money from these songs."
Every permission I have gotten has used a variant of that email. Artists are agreeing with that condition in mind. I know I am not the only person who uses this form when contacting artists.
If this isn't what you intended, then I can personally assure you, many of the files we have in the game are completely illegal.
This is something you need to explain much more clearly.

That is fair enough. I am only going by what I setup when I ran the site. Someone wrote that thread under permission from someone else and it is what it is. That just means that if we did take a different direction, there would need to be some serious footwork done on the songs gathered since that was said. Like was mentioned, you can augment through micro transactions. Just keep in mind that going down that path is a completely different mindset. Will it be filing as non-profit? Do we need a lawyer on retainer? S-Corp? Who is responsible for banking and or paying an accountant? How is the money used?


Cheers,

Synthlight (I keep forgetting to add this.. It's been awhile.)

[hi19hi19]

Like I said, I addressed all these things talking to OWA last night. I have a full business plan in mind for FFR. But I'm not the one who owns it.

I'm waiting to hear your perspective, because frankly, that's the only one that matters here.

[Crazyjayde]

When thinking revenue hi19 you should rather think compensation. Community input is the main incentive of a volunteer basis. If efforts pumped by and to the community don't feel rewarding in the first place, there won't be anything fueling it. It's that problem you want to avoid/can't effectively solve with revenue.

[Synthlight]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Zageron, and now Synth, have both asked the community what they would do differently if they were put in control of the site.
I have to reverse that question:
The site is clearly declining in activity.
People are unsatisfied.
What would you do to make this site vibrant again? What is the vision from the top?
Is there one at all?

That's fine, you can ask that. Knowing that Zag's time along with mine has been very limited for some time, I think your questions come off a little bit like diffusion of responsibility but it's a fair question none the less. It's also one that I think I have repeatedly answered since I have been active in this thread today. No matter how lacking in activity you think this site is right now, it's a matter of perspective. We do have every opportunity in the world right now and there are people putting together their own sites and that wished their SEO and activity level was even a fraction of this. Konami themselves put together the DDR Action community after they mined us for ideas under NDA (now expired) at their offices in California. I am sure they spent millions and it failed because it didn't have the advantages we have here.

I have already talked about ideas moving forward. The vision is simple and has not changed. It doesn't need to change. Preserve history, continue to involve the rhythm gaming community in general, transition the game onto a new platform, work with new artists, and provide leadership that speaks to the visitors of the site and the staff. These are things that worked really hard on from 2001 until about 2008 or 2009 and I don't think those goals have really wavered much. It's almost a mission statement.

But it's not an all or nothing situation. When I say I have already talked about them, I have in this thread. Start with one thing, leadership. Expand from there. I am someone that believe that success is a symptom of passion and passion is contagious.


Cheers,

Synthlight

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Crazyjayde

When thinking revenue hi19 you should rather think compensation. Community input is the main incentive of a volunteer basis. If efforts pumped by and to the community don't feel rewarding in the first place, there won't be anything fueling it. It's that problem you want to avoid/can't effectively solve with revenue.

Well our current problem is that there is hardly any community left to provide that compensation.
The volunteer system seems to have collapsed. You can argue otherwise, but I'm just going to point at the current batch.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Synthlight

That's fine, you can ask that. Knowing that Zag's time along with mine has been very limited for some time, I think your questions come off a little bit like diffusion of responsibility but it's a fair question none the less. It's also one that I think I have repeatedly answered since I have been active in this thread today. No matter how lacking in activity you think this site is right now, it's a matter of perspective. We do have every opportunity in the world right now and there are people putting together their own sites and that wished their SEO and activity level was even a fraction of this. Konami themselves put together the DDR Action community after they mined us for ideas under NDA (now expired) at their offices in California. I am sure they spent millions and it failed because it didn't have the advantages we have here.

I have already talked about ideas moving forward. The vision is simple and has not changed. It doesn't need to change. Preserve history, continue to involve the rhythm gaming community in general, transition the game onto a new platform, work with new artists, and provide leadership that speaks to the visitors of the site and the staff. These are things that worked really hard on from 2001 until about 2008 or 2009 and I don't think those goals have really wavered much. It's almost a mission statement.

But it's not an all or nothing situation. When I say I have already talked about them, I have in this thread. Start with one thing, leadership. Expand from there. I am someone that believe that success is a symptom of passion and passion is contagious.


Cheers,

Synthlight

If you think leadership is important, I agree.

Here's where we differ: I don't think volunteers from our current community are capable of providing the leadership you envision. Period.

Who is going to be the leader(s)? Are you appointing someone? Or are you just waiting for it to all kinda fall into place on its own?

[Crazyjayde]

No I agree, but then it shows a need for reworking the workflow (i.e. batch procedures). Accordingly, it's entirely viable for effectives to run at a smaller scale and provide a smaller portion of the needs of the site.

[Synthlight]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Who is going to be the leader(s)? Are you appointing someone? Or are you just waiting for it to all kinda fall into place on its own?

Good point. I am kind of here to discuss it and help lend a hand in figuring that out. I am providing what I know based on what has worked in the past but I also want input from others. I think it's important to discuss this all as openly as possible. So to answer your question: I have ideas bouncing around in my head but I want to figure this out as a group because it's important that everyone is on board.

[Synthlight]

(yes... double posting to let you guys know I am going to go watch a movie with my son and will be back afterwards.. I want to read every single response when I return. Also, everyone feel free to throw out ideas regardless of if they are thought through or not.)