TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

[flashflash account]

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555

he was in champs lmao

He wasn't in champs till after he replaced

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Svaz

I mostly just said it because of the meme recognition, but I also don't feel like he's anti at this point.

I felt like the nihilposting was pretty town, and especially his latest reluctance on leaving Antori alive (a point I definitely agree with). It's guided predominantly by the alignment of our opinions (9 is bait, kill the deceiver, etc.) but I mostly see an anti town motive in arguing favorably for any of those things.

I misread the first paragraph of this as an answer to Antori instead of GS quoting Roundbox.

[Funnygurl555]

Originally Posted by flashflash account

He wasn't in champs till after he replaced

oh

damnnnnnnnn

[funnier6]

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555

oh

damnnnnnnnn

-_-

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

This is another inexperience thing for me: Cocoa's flip indicated she knew who the other wolf/ves were/are, the Mafia wiki I'm using to look up all the terms people use that I don't understand doesn't seem to include 'lost wolf' or 'lost' as a role modifier. Is it usual for the lost wolf to get told who the other wolves were, but the other wolves to not get told? I don't understand the reference sunfan made to 'recruiting' them.

Does the lone wolf get found after a while? Does another wolf have to just -guess- who might be a lone wolf? How can you recruit the lone wolf if you don't know there is a lone wolf?

I agree that Cocoa /probably/ knew who the other wolves were, its not 100% clear from the flip, but it does appear that way.

Main wolves usually know if there is a lost wolf or not, but they basically never know who it is exactly at the beginning of the game.

The Lost Wolf usually knows who their partners are, but this is not always the case. Looking at Cocoa's flip, it really, really looks like Cocoa knew who the wolves were.

The flip also hints that Cocoa can join the wolves, but again, this is not always how lost wolves work. Mostly, the answer to a lot of your questions here is "it is up to the host"

As for exactly how Cocoa was meant to rejoin the wolves... your guess is as good as mine

[the sun fan]

ffa, why is gs a wolf?
I don't feel particularly strongly about him rn

[flashflash account]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

ffa, why is gs a wolf?
I don't feel particularly strongly about him rn

He's not being as analytical/insightful as he usually is

He read the setup and noticed that something changed almost immediately

His behavior today reads to me like he's being willfully ignorant of other possibilities for why the wolfkill didn't go through, attributing to antori feels like a way to push the discussion and lynch away from partners

[Gradiant]

Originally Posted by funnier6

I cant remember if this was brought up already but bringing up jesters is ew.

I only really brought it up specifically because of a role I had in a previous bastard game. 3rd party role where I simply win if a certain player gets lynched, and if they die a different way i turn town and play normal. But the player I had to get lynched was also a jester that flat out said 'lynch me or bad stuff will happen' and it made it impossible for me to do anything.

[Not devonin]

Originally Posted by Antori

woof woof i think mellon's photo rules that out

woof woof? you uh...yeah.

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555

let it be known that i never defended antori, just tossed out a hypothetical so i could hear other ppl's opinions. and roundbox 180'd on his read on me

also important

I'm a guy who loves some thought experiments, but when I do them I make it clearer that I'm pondering abstractly something I don't necessarily believe or advocate. It felt to me at least, like you were actually suggesting we consider keeping him alive, and so yeah, I get why roundbox would turn his read based on that.

We had to have a conversation about being careful not to waste the day phase by insta'ing him, so if you were just suggesting saving him to see how people felt, that seems like a bit of a 'read the room' moment.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

If we don't lynch Antori here, we're doing the same dumb town mistakes as in TPB.

There's no reason to keep an anti-town KP alive and it's guaranteed that we don't mislynch a townie if we lynch him. It's just too good to not do it.

We should be talking about how to handle the event tbh.

I feel like in general, my inclination as town is to stay the ever-loving crap away from anything that inserts randomness into the game. There's already enough randomness to make me uneasy. We've got one confirmed 3p and one claimed 3p, and the claimed 3p said he didn't have a daychat meaning they weren't a 'team' and so I worry that anybody who strongly advocates for playing games where maybe people randomly die are people who only need 1 person to live to win the game.

Originally Posted by gold stinger

Mellon_Collie was the only death last night, next to a modkill.

What are odds, this game, with a confirmed wolf team (dragonmega flip), that wolves don't submit a kill.

There's a reason why Antori doesn't go through with the idea I had.

Town should re-read this entire day phase under assumption that Antori is the wolf faction carrying out the wolf kill.

This is interesting if true, because when we lynch Antori, if he's a wolf, that means the wolf team doesn't have anybody who can conceal their kills or presumably mellon's camera wouldn't have worked.

This is interesting if false, because when we lynch Antori, if he's NOT a wolf, that means the town/3p has somebody who can block kills besides Antori (Since he used kill rather than roleblock) or somehow all the wolves aren't playing.

Originally Posted by gold stinger

Antori isn't third party. Antori is the wolf.

We'll find out shortly. More important is what we think it means if he is or is not the wolf. For reasons explained above, if he -is- a wolf, I turn to funnygurl next. if he's -not- a wolf, I'm....less sure. Going to post a thing after this about postcounts that hopefully can drive some progress on that front.

Originally Posted by gold stinger

And this entire day phase, everyone played along with Antori being a third party, because that's what Antori told us.

I'm saying to re-read this phase from the point of view that Antori isn't a third party, and is just the vanilla wolf kill. Everyone defending Antori or trying to shoot at angles at viability for Antori look really bad.

You're entering into the 'yeah we get it' phase. I say as I keep quoting these to respond to them :P

Originally Posted by gold stinger

Should probably add that there's basically nothing anyone can say at this point that won't make me un-think that Funnygurl is a wolf. Regardless of whether or not Antori flips wolf or 3p, the lynch should be Funnygurl unless there is some flips during next night phase that play out similar to the current one.

As I mentioned above, if Antori's a wolf I'm right here with you, but if Antori's not, what makes you still dead dead set against FG?

Originally Posted by Daikyi

from the looks of antori's role peek, it looks like he has to submit a kill or die after 3 strikes or something. that's not a wolf role, that's straight up third party, and the entire discussion revolving around this that gs is stirring up stinks of bad town play imo. don't think a wolf gets that caught up in semantics multiple times in a day thinking they're onto something hot like that i think

My read was that he has to do a kill or roleblock a kill, and that he can fail three times before he dies. We have no proof that roleblock is his second thing he can do. I could imagine a way this is a wolf role, but I have no idea if what I'm thinking of is common or feasible. I agree with you that I think gs is probably town, but I don't know if I agree that thinking Antori might be a wolf is obviously bad town play.

Originally Posted by gold stinger

I have no idea where devonin sits for me yet, and Funnygurl, well. yeah.

Anything I can comment on, or talk about to help you get a better read on me?

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I'm requesting to be voted as number 9 on the current on-going event, but it's a fairly big gamble on my side.

staaahhhppp. It's not just a big gamble on your side since I think almost everybody is in agreement that you're town. Engaging with randomness that can kill people as town feels like really bad town play to me and makes me suspect you again.

Originally Posted by Shadow_God_10

Well if you know that I understand your role pretty well, I want you to think of how to stay alive this game.

Nobody should be thinking of how Antori stays alive, not even Antori. If he's a wolf, I don't want to know the opinion he has on reads on his way to death. If he's 3p I don't know if I can -trust- any of his reads on his way to death, and if he's town I -definitely- can't trust any of his reads because boy oh boy picking mellon_collie to kill when you didn't necessarily even need to kill anybody is not the kind of town play that inspires confidence.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I have a theory that you're also a lost wolf and that you announced your night kill.

How would this work? See previous post for not really getting the whole 'lost wolf' thing. If there's a wolf team and a lost wolf, can they both submit a kill? Does whoever does it first get the kill and the other one's fizzles? The only game I was ever a wolf I was a master wolf, and we all just agreed on a kill and told the host.

Originally Posted by Antori

i dont think that far ahead into the game i sure i would of picked a diffrent target for n2

Originally Posted by flashflash account

This is the right answer
He's town

I don't like the idea that he thinks a good choice to kill as not-a-wolf is somebody he thinks is contributing and that he doesn't think is a wolf. If he actually tried to kill DBP I would have hoped it was either for inactivity (thus why he subbed out) or because he thought he was a wolf (thus shouldn't have changed his attack from me just because I'm 'new') but "I decided to kill a good player, and when the good player got subbed out, I picked another good player" followed by "I didn't bother thinking ahead" when he has a "three strikes you die" mechanic? Even if he's town, he's not playing it very well.

[Dafty.Pixel]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

this post... contains a coded message?
coded messages aren't legal, Dafty

Oh ok you talk about the ( - ......... )

Nah, is not a coded message. i just find this meme on google image this morning :P

i didn't see the dot the first time i save the image XD!!!!

[Not devonin]

So around 5:00am this morning thesunfan posted a screenshot of everybody's post activity, and somebody in the thread mentioned feeling a wolf read because town were posting a lot and wolves posting not that much, and I called out that we need to look at comparative counts, since d0 had so much non-game posting in it. So I've done that.

Here, in order of "Most to fewest posts in thesunfan's screenshot" is how many posts those people made since 5am

Soundwave	29
Funnygurl	52
storn42		38
gold stinger	37
Hakulyte	51
Shadow_God_10	23
thesunfan	22
Wayward		5
Svaz		12
Gradiant	12
roundbox	11
Antori		56
Hateandhatred	19
funnier6	9
flashflashacc	7
Daikyi		19
Devonin		52*

*I wasn't in the game when thesunfan posted the old image so I had 0 posts

Sunfan's post cut off here with the old postcounts but the people under the line are

XelNya 27 posts now, not sure how many before
Dafty.Pixel 7 posts now, not sure how many before

and the dead mellon_collie, dragonmegaXX and mtamburini

Antori jumping way up makes sense since he's under the gun.

Love to see some more from funnier, ffa, roundbox and gradiant

NEED to see some more from XelNya and Dafty.

[funnier6]

Originally Posted by Shadow_God_10

ABSOLUTELY! I'm so fucking thrilled! She put in the hard work of scrambling a reads list and I can dig that 100%. Hard work pays off imo.

unvote

Welcome back FunnyGirl! Good to see you in the swing of things.

Yay I Have A Reason To Not Lynch Town! Phew, that was a close one.

Don't mean to be rude but this really feels like the most obvious setup. OH THIS PERSON WANTS TO DIE WELL I HATE TO DO IT BUT I MUST VOTE OH YOU DONT WANT TO DIE WELL GUESS THATS THAT UNVOTE. I just. I cannot believe you legitimately had this thought process.

Originally Posted by the sun fan

reminder that it is definitely, definitely better to lynch inactives on d0 than it is to lynch actives

You will never ever ever convince me that that's true. I mean it worked out, but as a rule it sucks.

Originally Posted by the sun fan

tbh I'm really sketched out by every other Cocoa voter aside from Svaz
not a single one of them has their own case and my case wasn't even presented before people voted there

This is true and pretty scary, very probable unknowledgable bussing.

[flashflash account]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

So around 5:00am this morning thesunfan posted a screenshot of everybody's post activity, and somebody in the thread mentioned feeling a wolf read because town were posting a lot and wolves posting not that much, and I called out that we need to look at comparative counts, since d0 had so much non-game posting in it. So I've done that.

Here, in order of "Most to fewest posts in thesunfan's screenshot" is how many posts those people made since 5am

Soundwave	29
Funnygurl	52
storn42		38
gold stinger	37
Hakulyte	51
Shadow_God_10	23
thesunfan	22
Wayward		5
Svaz		12
Gradiant	12
roundbox	11
Antori		56
Hateandhatred	19
funnier6	9
flashflashacc	7
Daikyi		19
Devonin		52*

*I wasn't in the game when thesunfan posted the old image so I had 0 posts

Sunfan's post cut off here with the old postcounts but the people under the line are

XelNya 27 posts now, not sure how many before
Dafty.Pixel 7 posts now, not sure how many before

and the dead mellon_collie, dragonmegaXX and mtamburini

Antori jumping way up makes sense since he's under the gun.

Love to see some more from funnier, ffa, roundbox and gradiant

NEED to see some more from XelNya and Dafty.

Sorry, I can't really give much more today than I did yesterday

[funnier6]

Originally Posted by flashflash account

Sorry, I can't really give much more today than I did yesterday

Why not?

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

How would this work? See previous post for not really getting the whole 'lost wolf' thing. If there's a wolf team and a lost wolf, can they both submit a kill? Does whoever does it first get the kill and the other one's fizzles? The only game I was ever a wolf I was a master wolf, and we all just agreed on a kill and told the host.

Assume wolves didn't NK Raeko, but Raeko died anyway.
Assume wolves tries to look up who NK'd Raeko without knowing about the Raeko mechanic.
Assume wolves are trying to find lost wolves.
Assume lost wolf want to communicate with wolf partners that they're a wolf.
Assume lost wolf doesn't want to stack a kill with wolves because it's bad for them.
Lost wolf decides to leave a soft to announce who they targeted at night.
If wolves find it, they targeted someone else than Raeko and they get 2 kills.

[Dafty.Pixel]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

[...]


Antori jumping way up makes sense since he's under the gun.

Love to see some more from funnier, ffa, roundbox and gradiant

NEED to see some more from XelNya and Dafty.

So you want to see some more post from me ???

[Not devonin]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Assume wolves didn't NK Raeko, but Raeko died anyway.
Assume wolves tries to look up who NK'd Raeko without knowing about the Raeko mechanic.
Assume wolves are trying to find lost wolves.
Assume lost wolf want to communicate with wolf partners that they're a wolf.
Assume lost wolf doesn't want to stack a kill with wolves because it's bad for them.
Lost wolf decides to leave a soft to announce who they targeted at night.
If wolves find it, they targeted someone else than Raeko and they get 2 kills.

So in a game with wolves and a lost wolf, while they're not together they can kill 2 people a night? That...doesn't sound super balanced.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

So in a game with wolves and a lost wolf, while they're not together they can kill 2 people a night? That...doesn't sound super balanced.

bastard game

also there is probably two scum teams in this amount of players setup

[Hakulyte]

Honestly, I don't believe all the anti-town teams together with 22 players only have 1 kill power together.

A lot of stuff must have happened last night.

[XelNya]

Also premtively my reaction when some goes

well xel

how would you know that

and the reaction is that

that's just how it tends to be