Old 11-2-2020, 01:01 PM   #21
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Default Re: France

To play devil's advocate in discussion since I am not fully knowledgeable on an Islam standpoint, the "not all Muslims" argument also applies to western religions, like Christianity. There are extremists in Christianity that do some things I would argue are humanitarian violations, but are regarded as fair teachings, and there has been little to show in resolving the issues inherent in that, even in western countries.

I wonder if in the next 5-ish years or so, if USA's tune of "defund the police" will turn into "defund religion". The topic of having religion play a role in court politics in USA has already been visited multiple times.

I don't think the discussion was meant to be directed as 'islamophobia', but rather 'the concentration of extremists in this particular religion is higher than the concentration of extremists in other religions, and xxxxxxxxxx is the reason'. I agree with Dynam0's POV that the controversy started because some people decided to kill instead of properly protest, and they are wrong for that, despite their reasoning being religion. I disagree however, that the cause/reason is purely religion-based. There's a lot going on right now. There's lockdowns from the virus. Job loss due to the pandemic. Charlie Hebdo is not necessarily helping that tension, but have the freedom of expression to do so.
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Old 11-2-2020, 01:39 PM   #22
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It's funny how one can just slap on a '-phobia' suffix onto anything and suddenly it's a terrible thing to criticize it.

I'm definitely 'Islamophobic' against the religion in general, not all of its adherents. The Islamic world is going to have to come to grips with the fact that we can draw Muhammed whenever we like, and that Sharia Law has no place in our superior cultures.

That said, of course there are a large number of moderate Muslims who I have no problem with at all. We should all be judged as individuals.
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Old 11-2-2020, 03:14 PM   #23
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Sharia Law has no place in our superior cultures.
Oof. That reads like a trainwreck.

I do believe that the 'marriage' between law, politics, and religion should be dropped, given the surface level of concern I've experienced with religion affecting politics & law in other countries (USA for example). Not even based on what laws are derived from religion, just the bias associated with it.
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Old 11-2-2020, 03:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: France

Islam itself is not a problem ok bye

Ok hello again
I'm not going to type a bunch of words here but yes, religion and freedoms have come to a head, and they will again
Fanaticism is the problem here. I dont expect people to immediately agree with it, but I maintain that it is true. A few hundred years ago, some of the first Europeans to settle in America had vastly different ideas about Christianity (with regard to either political or community enforcement) than modern day.

It will take time before religious fervor dies out due to modernism. This has been true of every religion to a large extent. I do not see a reason why Islam would be different.

I cant claim to be an expert on French culture, or really even knew that there were classes on freedom of expression being taught by mandate in French schools. I believe I can see how this unfortunate event will spur on others like it, perhaps.

Funnily enough, this is in direct counter to some things I typed a few years ago, before anyone calls me a hypocrite. I've since changed my view on the matter after learning a bit more in school.
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Old 11-2-2020, 03:32 PM   #25
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our superior cultures.
I agree that's over the line...careful

Also, the intended purpose of this thread isn't to shit-talk Islam or religion in general (although it might be an eventuality I didn't foresee). I was hoping to discuss the political implications this conflict might bring to boil if it continues.

Macron (France) and Erdogan (Turkey) have been tossing barbs at each other and of course Charlie Hebdo goes and publishes a satirical image of Erdogan, pissing more people off in the process. How silly would it be if a magazine publisher starts WWIII because they trolled too much lol
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Old 11-2-2020, 03:33 PM   #26
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It's funny how one can just slap on a '-phobia' suffix onto anything and suddenly it's a terrible thing to criticize it.

I'm definitely 'Islamophobic' against the religion in general, not all of its adherents. The Islamic world is going to have to come to grips with the fact that we can draw Muhammed whenever we like, and that Sharia Law has no place in our superior cultures.

That said, of course there are a large number of moderate Muslims who I have no problem with at all. We should all be judged as individuals.
doesn't sharia law line up with a lot of the stuff that the right peddles, like anti-lgbt rhetoric, anti-transgender rhetoric, anti-women rhetoric, etc? I know you're a trump supporter, like aren't all of these things you would want lol.
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Old 11-2-2020, 03:39 PM   #27
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did i say something lmao

y'all realize how offensive drawing prophet muhammad-- who first of all shouldn't be drawn in the first place-- NAKED is? like... dude, muslims were ENRAGED. in islam it's very important not to draw or take pictures of important figures so that they're not idolized

edit: or... i guess ridiculed too
I really cannot get into this mindset because I cannot fathom being so enraged at a comic it gives me a visceral reaction, especially when that comic is about something that doesn't even exist
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Old 11-2-2020, 03:42 PM   #28
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itt: islamophobia in 2020

i ain't doing this on the forums man. not again. this is straight up not okay though
you should be afraid of any large religion, all they are good for are subjugating the masses and denying rights to marginalized groups
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Old 11-2-2020, 03:44 PM   #29
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and that Sharia Law has no place in our superior cultures.

That said, of course there are a large number of moderate Muslims who I have no problem with at all. We should all be judged as individuals.
sounds like someone's hiding their /pol/ power level
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Old 11-2-2020, 03:54 PM   #30
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Also, the intended purpose of this thread isn't to shit-talk Islam or religion in general (although it might be an eventuality I didn't foresee). I was hoping to discuss the political implications this conflict might bring to boil if it continues.
I think all of it will ultimately just bring higher tensions, and that's all
This is, in a way, a ripple effect of the original Hebdo publication, so you can say that its simply a continuation or a rekindling rather than something new.

I highly, highly doubt a publishing company is going to start WWIII, though its been done before, War is not something that is formally declared anymore by the West, so I don't really think it would develop in a way that could lead to WWIII when I think there are bigger, hotbox issues involving Russia and China's tensions with the West.

In a weird way, I feel like I can only see a few hundred years ahead, rather than a few months ahead.
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Old 11-2-2020, 04:00 PM   #31
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agree, russia is a bigger deal than some french dudes getting their heads cut off
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Old 11-2-2020, 04:02 PM   #32
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agree, russia is a bigger deal than some french dudes getting their heads cut off
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not
I think its not?
could you clarify, and if you were being sarcastic, explain why you think this is the bigger deal?
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Old 11-2-2020, 04:07 PM   #33
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just pointing out that we need to make concessions is all
can't afford to care about the french, we got bigger fish to fry, bro!
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Old 11-2-2020, 05:59 PM   #34
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doesn't sharia law line up with a lot of the stuff that the right peddles, like anti-lgbt rhetoric, anti-transgender rhetoric, anti-women rhetoric, etc? I know you're a trump supporter, like aren't all of these things you would want lol.
From your perspective I guess. Not at all from mine.
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Old 11-2-2020, 06:15 PM   #35
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From your perspective I guess. Not at all from mine.
wait so you're not a trump supporter
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Old 11-2-2020, 07:26 PM   #36
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just pointing out that we need to make concessions is all
can't afford to care about the french, we got bigger fish to fry, bro!
this isn't even remotely what I was saying
a straight answer would've been appreciated
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Old 11-3-2020, 01:26 AM   #37
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Meanwhile mass shootings in Vienna, i'll be surprised if it's not connected to this
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Old 11-3-2020, 07:09 AM   #38
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this isn't even remotely what I was saying
a straight answer would've been appreciated
heres the straight: there's literally nothing we can do as a society to engage with islamic terrorism without seeming incredibly bigoted so just let it happen. like you said, islamic religious fervor will eventually die out.
let the french deal with it themselves.
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Old 11-3-2020, 07:45 AM   #39
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heres the straight: there's literally nothing we can do as a society to engage with islamic terrorism without seeming incredibly bigoted so just let it happen. like you said, islamic religious fervor will eventually die out.
let the french deal with it themselves.
that's probably all there is to hope for
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Old 11-3-2020, 07:51 AM   #40
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in islam it's very important not to draw or take pictures of important figures so that they're not idolized
wait couldn't you just like
not idolize them regardless
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