When u bump a thread in CC...

[Untimely Friction]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Now the issue of mods taking rules more serious then they probably deserve with our all time low low traffic? I'm down to having that conversation although I kind of feel like nothing too sinister really happens around here.

I'd say recent(Edit: Recent as in last week or two) thread quality from some people (I couldnt list names I've ust noticed what feels like tgb leaking) has been pretty troll and been meant to push mods buttons, which in turn kinda prompts a like response.

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Untimely Friction

what feels like tgb leaking

It does get lonely in the bin sometimes.

On a serious note I don't see that big of an issue with the baiters or the biters if that's what it really boils down to. Some old users having a goof because the site is mostly contained to the same lot of us 24/7 and mods just kind of doing mod stuff by stopping old users having a goof.

But again I have not really been around here so that's assuming I understand all this correctly.

[Arch0wl]

I do care

do I care enough to override the other shit I care about to do this, without any idea of how my efforts will go

no I do not, other shit beasts

sorry FFR

I love you but you're like a cousin I talk to every 3 years

I'll give you a ride to the airport but only if I know you're actually waking up for your flight

etc

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

It does get lonely in the bin sometimes.

On a serious note I don't see that big of an issue with the baiters or the biters if that's what it really boils down to. Some old users having a goof because the site is mostly contained to the same lot of us 24/7 and mods just kind of doing mod stuff by stopping old users having a goof.

But again I have not really been around here so that's assuming I understand all this correctly.

I see a problem with baiters actually.

Normally, when you bait, it's for a reason.

If you're purely baiting for baiting, you should technically get in trouble with mods.
If there's an hidden message behind your baiting, you should try to be clear about it or you're doing it wrong.

I support drama over technicalities, but I don't support drama over users or staff.

If you want to attack, you need to attack the argument, not the person.

tl;dr: Baiting "is" a problem.

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

I do care

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

I do not

Well, I got my answer.

That sucks because I know you have the potential to do great things when you put your mind into it.

I guess that's it for this thread.

Thanks for trying. \o

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I see a problem with baiters actually.

Normally, when you bait, it's for a reason.

If you're purely baiting for baiting, you should technically get in trouble with mods.
If there's an hidden message behind your baiting, you should try to be clear about it or you're doing it wrong.

I support drama over technicalities, but I don't support drama over users or staff.

If you want to attack, you need to attack the argument, not the person.

Just glancing at the first page, it seems that the only one really going after the mods personally (Or as personally as you can get while referring to them as mods) is Top, and I mean he's making his case pretty clear.

Still the way the bolded quote is worded makes me wonder if there's a subtext I am missing, like if there really have been personal attacks that go further then "The way the site is managed does not sit well with me". Would you link me some choice examples of posters crossing the line from light site trolling to potential harmful?

[devonin]

FFR rules do not distinguish by intent. at all. they are intent-blind. all sustainable/sensible legal systems factor intent into decisions.

The two main problems with having intent be a strong enough factor to make the difference between an edit or not and a delete or not are:

1/ It's real easy to just claim passive intent after the fact to avoid getting in trouble

2/ If you do something that would generally be against the rules, but your intent was something justifiable (They knew I was joking, I was just making a point, I only stole that bread because my family is starving) you know it, the mod knows it, but the new user coming in after the fact seeing it goes 'oh this just must be how it is'

A lot of what seems like being completely intent-blind is also about curating the appearance of the community to outsiders who don't know which people are buds who just like to smack talk, and which people are assholes being allowed to be assholes.

[Hakulyte]

This is why content and intents are both important.

You can't have one without the other.

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by devonin

A lot of what seems like being completely intent-blind is also about curating the appearance of the community to outsiders who don't know which people are buds who just like to smack talk, and which people are assholes being allowed to be assholes.

To follow up on this line of thought, I guess that was one of the big reasons why the OG TGB was a popular hangout and a very good addition to the forums, as the rules where more relaxed and people could smack talk all day long in there---getting rid of the need to feel tempted to break the rules.



....Well, for that and to troll people who stumbled in.

[devonin]

This is something I have to consider a lot now that I own my own retail business that fosters a great deal of community and has large group events.

On the one hand, if two buddies are the only people in the store, and they are playing Magic and one says to the other "Man that card is so retarded, it just rapes me!" my inclination is to enforce the rules of behavior of my store where that kind of language is not acceptable.

If I allow intent and the particulars of that individual situation to influence how I react (Say, I go 'well it's just them here, his buddy laughed and they obviously don't mean any actual insult or offense to anybody') and let it slide, if I later -do- tell them they can't act that way when they do it in front of other people, they are pretty justified in protesting because they did it before and I didn't say anything.

To go a step further, if I -keep- letting it slide because I know they are just joking and don't mean anything malicious by it, when they DO do it in front of other customers who -do- get upset or uncomfortable or offended by it, and I don't do anything, they are not able to tell the difference between "He's letting it slide because he knows those two, and thinks they don't mean any harm by it" and "He thinks this is perfectly okay, and this is the kind of place this is" and they are pretty likely to leave and not come back.

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

To follow up on this line of thought, I guess that was one of the big reasons why the OG TGB was a popular hangout and a very good addition to the forums, as the rules where more relaxed and people could smack talk all day long in there---getting rid of the need to feel tempted to break the rules..

I know when the standing ruleset for TGB was one I wrote, a bunch of rules -were- relaxed in TGB that the current rules seem to not relax (inasmuch as V's rules are actual rules) and there's really no reason I can think of that they shouldn't still be relaxed. It's a closed forum.

[Arch0wl]

Originally Posted by devonin

1/ It's real easy to just claim passive intent after the fact to avoid getting in trouble

2/ If you do something that would generally be against the rules, but your intent was something justifiable (They knew I was joking, I was just making a point, I only stole that bread because my family is starving) you know it, the mod knows it, but the new user coming in after the fact seeing it goes 'oh this just must be how it is'

#1 seems like it would be an issue but it's not.

you'd think it would be, because this is a textual forum so it's more ambiguous.

in actuality, in a workplace setting I've found I can stretch the limits of speech codes far more due to the varying tones I can put on messages. (don't feel bad; this was a customer service job that had me lying every 30 seconds or less as an occupational requirement.) and in cases like these you can deny a conversation ever happened -- at least here you have a record of it.

I was able to get people to obey an intent rule on a pretty controversial reddit forum, so it can be done.

#2 is a possibility but if they internalize that into breaking a rule just business-as-usual and enforce the rule in their case.

[Arch0wl]

ok, I will compromise and take a shot at amending the rules. these will be abridged versions of what I would write, so they may appear to have loopholes, but that's to be expected the shorter you get.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by ArchOwl

#2 is a possibility but if they internalize that into breaking a rule just business-as-usual and enforce the rule in their case.

You don't see any problem with allowing player A to break a rule because of your knowledge of their intent, and then punishing player B for breaking that same rule because they thought player A's actions demonstrated it was allowed? Seems a little hypocritical to me.

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

ok, I will compromise and take a shot at amending the rules. these will be abridged versions of what I would write, so they may appear to have loopholes, but that's to be expected the shorter you get.

I'm gathering from the FFR Team page that Sky Kitten is the one who'd be responsible for listening or not to your suggestions? That page says she's not been around for a week, so I suppose weigh that in your calculation of when you decide you've not been listened to.

[Hakulyte]

Unrelated, but if you create the habit of using and keep your posts into one post, you will make someone really happy in staff. <3

[devonin]

Um...pretty sure I don't need to be told how to use the forum interface Haku, but thanks

IE: I had already merged my own post before you posted that.

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by devonin

This is something I have to consider a lot now that I own my own retail business that fosters a great deal of community and has large group events.

On the one hand, if two buddies are the only people in the store, and they are playing Magic and one says to the other "Man that card is so retarded, it just rapes me!" my inclination is to enforce the rules of behavior of my store where that kind of language is not acceptable.

If I allow intent and the particulars of that individual situation to influence how I react (Say, I go 'well it's just them here, his buddy laughed and they obviously don't mean any actual insult or offense to anybody') and let it slide, if I later -do- tell them they can't act that way when they do it in front of other people, they are pretty justified in protesting because they did it before and I didn't say anything.

To go a step further, if I -keep- letting it slide because I know they are just joking and don't mean anything malicious by it, when they DO do it in front of other customers who -do- get upset or uncomfortable or offended by it, and I don't do anything, they are not able to tell the difference between "He's letting it slide because he knows those two, and thinks they don't mean any harm by it" and "He thinks this is perfectly okay, and this is the kind of place this is" and they are pretty likely to leave and not come back.



I know when the standing ruleset for TGB was one I wrote, a bunch of rules -were- relaxed in TGB that the current rules seem to not relax (inasmuch as V's rules are actual rules) and there's really no reason I can think of that they shouldn't still be relaxed. It's a closed forum.

I can see and agree to these points. I sometimes forget that we do kind of want new blood here haha. I guess I can't complain that it's just us when I in the same breath advocate behavior that keeps it just us.


Also I was referring to like 2006 Garbage Bin, but point taken.

Also:

Originally Posted by devonin

This is something I have to consider a lot now that I own my own retail business that fosters a great deal of community and has large group events.

#humblebrag

[Frank Munoz]

even if an act was done with such a specific intent if the rules state not to do such an act then we don't do it.
everyone and anyone can express their intentions without breaking the rules.

how confusing can "don't do [x]" be?

if someone absolutely(if there's no other way in this universe) needs to do so, usually for testing, they can inform the staff depending on the act and wait for confirmation on whether you can or not.
pertaining to forum actions/socialization
there's not much to test other than the rules, which is against the rules.
we don't have to test/break them to make a statement either

[Deadlyx39]

If this was posted at 12PM instead of 12AM we would've gotten 2 or 3 pages of this and it would've been a great read (I'm on 80 posts per page).

But anyway I would think that a person would have the right idea of when is and when isn't a good time to act a certain way. I know that if I'm posting in Chit-Chat that I can shitpost make small and pointless posts and nobody will care. But if I post in Crtical Thinking I should know that I need to at least provide something worthwhile to the conversation. Many of the rules that seem extremely pointless don't really need to be changed just because most of you guys have been here for 5+ years (and users like myself are considered newer users at nearly two years on this site), so you just understand what is and isn't allowed. I don't think we have to necessarily rely on setting a precedent for new users, just because there is very few new and active people that join the community and post on the forums every month. And those that do understand the way that you should act on the forums with time.

I just wanted to post this so you can see what I mean by "very few new and active people". If you don't feel like clicking the link, basically what I did is I went through this user list and I counted the amount of people that have at least 100 posts that have joined since September 2014 (when I joined). Counting myself, there's only 13 people that have at least 100 posts that have joined the site in nearly 2 years, and two of those profiles are for the Events Team and the TCG team.

Honestly I think we should worry less about the older site rules and worry more about getting new users onto the site.

[top]

K so i apologize for comin in here and not expressin myself clearly.
This is chit chat. What does chit chat entail? Any darn thing you want!

Like arch said its like a party and all sorts of convos can happen.
What i have a problem with is the strictness. This place feels like its tryna be for serious discussion only. (how dare you have fun on an online message board!)
And before you say it.. no thats not why tgb exists. Thats a place for over the top shit whereas CC is just toeing that line. *witty comment* vs *witty & relevant comment*

Tldr feels like nazis
Inb4 lock

edit becuz mod forbid i double post
As for the thread title i saw choof bump an old thread and of course, locked.
I forget when exactly that particular action started becoming a lockable offense but its always rubbed me wrong.
Say i bump a 6 year old thread with the intent to start up the convo again as opposed to just shit posting. Itll still get locked.
The justification was, "just start a new thread". Why?! If the views expressed are relevant then why is that necessary?
Doesnt that just add more clutter? Remember when the forums needed wiped hhhhmmmmmm? Then you got this double posting shaming goin on and its almost a double standard.

And also i apologize @ mods i dont want it to come off like im attackin u

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by top

As for the thread title i saw choof bump an old thread and of course, locked.
I forget when exactly that particular action started becoming a lockable offense but its always rubbed me wrong.
Say i bump a 6 year old thread with the intent to start up the convo again as opposed to just shit posting. Itll still get locked.
The justification was, "just start a new thread". Why?! If the views expressed are relevant then why is that necessary?
Doesnt that just add more clutter? Remember when the forums needed wiped hhhhmmmmmm? Then you got this double posting shaming goin on and its almost a double standard.

stop the shaming. all posts are beautiful.

starting a new thread would give you OP control if you didn't have it before, which would also let you point people to the previous thread and say "hey go read this it's relevant". but mods locking old threads because they are old is stupid.

fakedit: honestly i should've found a way to double post this because postcount++ is meaningless and staff ought to at least try not to be hypocritical, but hey, rules are only for other people to follow, right?

[Untimely Friction]

Originally Posted by top

As for the thread title i saw choof bump an old thread and of course, locked.
I forget when exactly that particular action started becoming a lockable

I was banned for a week for a old thead bump TEN YEARS AGO, it's been a default standard for OVER AN ACTUAL DECADE.