06-20-2016, 11:33 PM | #201 |
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Re: orlando shooting
The only time I can think of in recent US history where automatic weapons were used:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout And even here, they were illegally-modified full-autos. Thankfully, only two casualties: Both shooters. |
06-20-2016, 11:36 PM | #202 |
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Re: orlando shooting
one thing i really dont understand is how republicans can get mad about democrats doing the whole gun rights thing by saying "this is really about radical islam" when they havent even tried to pass an authorization of military force against ISIS.
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06-20-2016, 11:37 PM | #203 | |
Vophie
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Re: orlando shooting
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also, no one here has really expressed the deliverance of "ban all firearms", but more of, Omar Mateen should never have been granted the choice to purchase one. The point of gun control is to ban those unworthy to wield a firearm, not specifically guns themselves, within the public though there may be some bans, their uses are usually for professional settings kinda like having street legal vehicles good vid though
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06-21-2016, 12:24 AM | #204 |
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Re: orlando shooting
iirc the gun vendor reported omar as suspicious to the FBI and the FBI did nothing
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06-21-2016, 08:34 AM | #205 | |||||||
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Re: orlando shooting
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i'm not saying that the stuff in the middle east doesn't count, just that you're comparing apples and oranges to prove your point. which again, doesnt make sense. Quote:
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06-21-2016, 01:15 PM | #206 | |
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Re: orlando shooting
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06-21-2016, 01:27 PM | #207 | |
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Re: orlando shooting
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Plus he had security jobs w/ no incidents so they prolly put him in the clear or a grey area Idk |
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06-21-2016, 03:45 PM | #208 |
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Re: orlando shooting
not reading that wall of text bro0o0o0o0 but if you thought I was being serious you need to check your sarcasm meter
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06-21-2016, 04:41 PM | #209 | |
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Re: orlando shooting
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a few security officers that worked with him sent reports as well i believe, it's kinda weird how the fbi just let so many reports slide. even with his past events of violence, even reports of beating his ex wife before the shooting. the fbi messed up somewhere man
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06-21-2016, 09:16 PM | #210 | |||||||||||||
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Re: orlando shooting
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are you arguing that the contempt for homosexuality burned into people by religion doesnt count because the religion isn't blatantly telling people to go out and kill gay people? Quote:
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islamic terror is more openly hostile, but christianity has bred the same kind of hate for LGBT people in south america and africa with quieter, but more lethal results. Quote:
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but that's not really important. christianity is not as openly harmful as islam, but it is just as harmful, going by numbers of LGBT deaths it is possibly more harmful. Quote:
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06-22-2016, 09:04 AM | #211 | ||||
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Re: orlando shooting
i'm running late for work so i can only reply to a few things.
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but the point is that saying "it's the religion" is very, very simplistic. the acts of terror in general have less to do with religion and more to do with politics and history. the acts of terror against LGBT people have only to do with religion, which is why i was focusing on them and comparing them to hate crimes across the world. again, the majority of the deaths that you were using to claim that islam is responsible for the bulk of terror were muslims killing muslims in iraq, afghanistan and syria. it's much more an issue of tribalism than religion. just like the IRA in Ireland. The IRA was catholic and the loyalists were protestant, but it wasnt radical catholicism that drove the IRA. Quote:
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06-22-2016, 12:55 PM | #212 |
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Re: orlando shooting
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06-22-2016, 02:26 PM | #213 |
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Re: orlando shooting
@ kaj3 it doesn't promote killing unjustly though.
(I posted iterations to the "violent" verses you shared a while back. As well as sources to everything stated here. Not really sure if you looked at that but if not, and you doubt this claim, you can check that. But you may still doubt this as we all have different understandings of what something truly means. There are many Islamic clerics who state this though, and that the views ISIL has of Islam are wrong and degrade the true texts of the Qur'an. Similar to what true Christians have in view of the KKK, and the Westboro church.) In self defense yes. To those who attack you first, you attack them back. The same mentality arch had with that pro gun shirt post. It makes sense though, right? Some one shoots you, you shoot back. Though he may have meant more preemptive actions then I do, the shirt's text suggested self defense. Just as the qur'an. It also doesn't say to kill gays. It says to tell them what God will do to them, not what you should do to them. Just as you are misunderstanding the Qur'an, so is ISIL. Which you've stated yourself actually. Where you share the same interpretation of the Qur'an as the leader of ISIL does. ISIL is currently the largest terrorist group And proceed to grow. The thing is any radical group has the possibility to become this large and deadly is what we're getting at. Which has happened. No one is denying that islamic terrorism is the most frequent currently There are arguably, depending on the location, bigger threats to mankind, but we like to focus on what's more obvious. It's why we are at war with ISIL. ISIL is at war with ~60 countries, either directly or indirectly, and because of this they have attacked them all. It's why their attacks are so frequent. And we want to end their misguided view of islam asap. Not Islam itself just because ISIL gives a quote before their atrocities or say it's in the name of Allah doesn't mean it's right. I can AAA EHHS right now and say it was in the name of [x] religion and use a misquoted verse from its texts to justify my actions. Even if I truly believe myself that's what the texts mean and my actions will get me into heaven doesn't mean I am right. Though my actions may by inspired by [x] religion doesn't mean it is [x] religion. Though my remix of drake's "hotlinebling" is inspired by it, doesn't mean it is "hotlinebling". Also yea, choof had like an epiphany mid thread. I don't really hold it against you for missing it as there are alot of post to read, but being this engaged on the topic I gotta wonder why you chose to skip some posts, especially one made by the OP. Oh well, misunderstandings happen.
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06-22-2016, 03:13 PM | #214 | |
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Re: orlando shooting
well
technically you're right but Quote:
Lot was also the guy who said, "nah don't rape them fam rape my daughters instead lol" I found this nifty website the other day and I've been poring over it honestly makes me want to get a qu'ran so I can get a truly personal idea on it, but a lot of this shit is damning |
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06-22-2016, 08:09 PM | #215 | |||||||||
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Re: orlando shooting
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yeah founded in 1999, right. funny coincidence the group (under a different name) joining al qaeda in 2004. probably no correlation to be made there. it's not like the US invaded iraq in 2003. funny how it wasn't until 2006 that they actually became the islamic state. in iraq. in 2006. read the History section of that wikipedia article. funny how there is literally one sentence describing the founding of the group and literally the next sentence jumps to 2004. it's almost like they were completely irrelevant until 2004 i wonder what event that could possibly correspond to. Quote:
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[img]http://www.gregdavis.ca/share/timeline.png[/quote] Quote:
all of it is worth a read, but if you need to you can skip to "US invasion of Iraq" the point is that not only is a lot of the shia/sunni terrorism a result of the invasion, but that classifying it as Islamic terror is true but also false. it's definitely terrorism, but the motivations are not nearly as simple as you make them out to be, and shouldnt be easily lumped in with anti-LGBT terror in america, or even boko haram in nigeria. [/quote]I agree with you with on tribalism, but all religions are rooted in tribalism. This tribalism you speak of may have something to do with the biological underpinnings of human beings. And you seriously brought up the IRA? LOL. That's even worse than bringing up the LRA. When is the last time someone died from a terrorist attack from the IRA? [/quote] when was the ottoman empire? start being consistent. either history matters or it doesn't. (hint: it does) the point is that religiously oriented terror groups can be motivated by something other than religion. Quote:
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you seem completely incapable of looking beyond labels. |
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06-22-2016, 09:34 PM | #216 |
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Re: orlando shooting
Violence in the name of Islam has always been around in the east. Of course US intervention has spread this to the west you'd be brain-dead not to make this connection lmao
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06-22-2016, 10:29 PM | #217 | |
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Re: orlando shooting
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06-22-2016, 11:09 PM | #218 |
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Re: orlando shooting
With all of this information, what's the prescription for the future?
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06-22-2016, 11:22 PM | #219 |
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Re: orlando shooting
Were all gonna die one day
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06-23-2016, 12:54 AM | #220 | |
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Re: orlando shooting
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though there are a few online translations in English we can read through, (i mentioned this in a previous post) i would also suggest reading multiple translations, and iterations as well. being that they were all translated by different people, with different interpretations of what the true arabic texts mean it's difficult to trust their judgment who can we really trust but ourselves essentially i don't think i'll be learning Arabic anytime soon though, but getting some understanding, rather than a true one, is better than nothing i guess.
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