Old 12-9-2010, 01:38 AM   #3601
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Default Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

Nah dude this is FFR we gotta drama any and all **** possible
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Old 12-9-2010, 02:02 AM   #3602
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Default Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

Quote:
9/9 point requirements are supposed to be extremely difficult for the top level players to get, but some of the 8 point requirements are now even unattainable for some of the best players.
Once the new update is complete, there won't be many 8/8 or 9/9 requirements to begin with.

Quote:
Piano Concerto 1 'ANTI-ARES' (For Kirby) - 1 or fewer; this is one of the higher FMOs, and it still has an open AAA spot in the high score boards. This should be at LEAST a 7 point requirement.
Uh no? So basically you're saying that a BF on Piano Concerto should really be a 9/9 requirement...
Quote:
Red Wings Over Baron - 8/8 - 2 or fewer; there's only two people who even have two or fewer on the song to begin with, and yet this is only an 8 point requirement? The song is nearly 8 minutes long.
No idea where you're getting this "2 or fewer" nonsense from. The 8/8 requirement for that is "3 or fewer" which is equivalent to a 10/10 requirement on the old system.

Quote:
Winter Wind Etude - 8/8 - 2 or fewer; another song with only two people who meet the requirement, rank 3 gets you nowhere even close.
Again, not sure where you're getting the "2 or fewer" thing again. The top requirement for that is "5 or fewer" for 8/8 which again is equivalent to a 10/10 requirement on the old system

Quote:
This update is going to knock those who were barely in tier 0 out of it when they rightfully deserve it. Not to mention the fact that, for lower level players, striving to get tier points is something that they want to do, and getting any sort of respectable amount is appearing to be (based off of just a few songs) ridiculously difficult.
This is true however Tier 0 is meant to be extremely difficult to reach. Also, keep in mind that 17 VC files were replaced with 7 new FMO songs and 10 new FGO files which is why Tier 0 will be set a bit stricter since each one of those files will have more points you can earn.

Quote:
Why do tiers have to be entirely based off of just higher level players when there's a ton of active players on the site right now who will struggle just to get a single point? If this is a tiered rating system, why not make broader tiers with more songs so that people can accurately be measured?
Why you arguing this now? Tier points have always been based off the "Top players" (Hence the thread title)
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Old 12-9-2010, 02:04 AM   #3603
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Default Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

New 8pts are as difficult as old 10pts, so that's mostly fine.

also considering some of old 9/9 songs will be knocked down to 6/6 on new reqs, anti ares req is reasonable. (and yeah in stavie's and halogen's posts Baron and WWE reqs are both wrong, wtf)

Only 9pts reqs are Revo AAA and 50 or fewer on DP/RATO (future top players will get these eventually).

ps the biggest reason for decreasing overall tier points is that this system can't handle 10+ points.
we need to focus on TOP players more, not mass players so this happened. only solution for this is making "amateur TP system".. maybe.

Last edited by jimerax; 12-9-2010 at 02:40 AM..
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Old 12-9-2010, 02:40 AM   #3604
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Default Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

I'm wondering, what would really be wrong with (a) adding more songs and (b) having TPs for a song go higher than 9? As for the former, I know the ability of the top players has increased a lot since the last TP revamp, and that we have more hard songs, but making the lower TP goals harder and harder will just discourage players who are developing their skills. You already have to work up to being able to FC FMOs - what if it gets to the point where developing players get dozens of mashing points before they get a single accuracy one? I'd rather have a consistent, not-too-hard TP system which keeps adding songs, even though the total of available TPs would keep increasing. (Maybe then you'd have to define the tiers by a percentage, so you might need 60% for T4, 95% for T0, that kind of thing.)

And as for the latter, if it's a coding issue, it really shouldn't be too hard to fix - I would be extremely surprised if more than a handful of lines needed to be changed.
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Old 12-9-2010, 03:09 AM   #3605
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Default Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

Just as a comment from someone down in that skill range that's not getting full combos on FMO songs, I was proud of my 11 points which are now down to 3 and probably going back to 0 if full combo requirements are all getting removed. ;_; I understand I'm not at the level intended for tier points yet, but still it was motivating and it would be cool if there was something similar for people who aren't top level players. I was 1 average away from getting 25 goods on A World of Piano earlier today. Guess I'm just back to working on that FC bar.
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Old 12-9-2010, 04:08 AM   #3606
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Default Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

We already have 120 songs for TP req, many enough (could be even fewer).

TP is meant to represent skill more than effort, so simpler system is fine.

If this system supports 10 or higher reqs we could keep point values, oh well.
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Old 12-9-2010, 11:52 AM   #3607
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Default Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimerax View Post
New 8pts are as difficult as old 10pts, so that's mostly fine.

also considering some of old 9/9 songs will be knocked down to 6/6 on new reqs, anti ares req is reasonable. (and yeah in stavie's and halogen's posts Baron and WWE reqs are both wrong, wtf)

Only 9pts reqs are Revo AAA and 50 or fewer on DP/RATO (future top players will get these eventually).

ps the biggest reason for decreasing overall tier points is that this system can't handle 10+ points.
we need to focus on TOP players more, not mass players so this happened. only solution for this is making "amateur TP system".. maybe.
no, we don't. You don't NEED to focus on top players with this, the problem is that the system is intended for it, which is wrong. Yes, it's always been the "top players" thread, and it bothers me now because there's even smaller of a community currently playing the game. Just because it's always been that way doesn't mean that it's always been correct. A very small majority of the players are extremely active, some are even capable of getting AAAs on certain 10s and yet, they would struggle to get into the double digits in tiers.

If this is a tiered system, why not include lower songs so people who actually are a bit lower of a tier could be placed? I don't see the point of dropping point requirements because the 10 point requirements weren't supported, considering all of the requirements were 9/9 or lower and players would never notice the 10th point reqs within their totals.

This system isn't even "tiered" anyway. There's many better ways to actually include a lot more people in this and still maintain an actual tier list. I have two different ideas, but chances are, my post will get dissected and torn apart with reasons as to why this tier system works better even though it's really not the best of systems for the players that we have at the moment - so I'm not even going to bother.

EDIT:
Quote:
As for the former, I know the ability of the top players has increased a lot since the last TP revamp, and that we have more hard songs, but making the lower TP goals harder and harder will just discourage players who are developing their skills.
-bingo-

EDIT: i'm also not trying to discredit the people working on this current system, it's just time for a revamp.

Last edited by TC_Halogen; 12-9-2010 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 12-9-2010, 04:20 PM   #3608
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Default Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

Alright, I've been thinking about this all day and have come up with what I 'think' is the best tier system we can have:

Tiers are nothing more than skill ranks, like how in Halo you can go from private to Captain to General, and COD has similar ranks too. I think we should make a 6 tier system, each tier having it's own 'badge' displayed on your profile, where everyone who joins FFR starts at 'Novice' Tier. Certain tier point standards, like usual, are set to determine what tier you're in.

The tiers req songs would include ALL songs of difficulty 65 and up. Each song has tier point reqs as usual, from 3/3 (challenging songs) to 9/9 (FGO's). FGO's will have special extremely hard reqs I will get to later, to prevent mashers from getting a lot of points, i.e. FC reqs for all FGO's will be gone. Each tier would correspond to a certain difficulty of song reqs in general, ex. Tier 1 FFR Guru FGO, Tier 2 FFR Master would correspond to FMO, Tier 3 Expert would refer to VC, Tier 2 to C, and God Tier (Tier 0) would require you to have every tier point except for like, 8. It would be made so only 2-3 people should EVER be in it. Okay, basic breakdown:

Tier rank values (Tier points required to be in a certain tier) should require your tier point total to be greater or equal to:

The sum of every songs possible points BELOW this tier (ex. FFR Master would require you to have a total of more than every available point of all songs on the list under FMO)
+
The sum of 3/4 of the points available in all songs in corresponding tiers (ex. FFR Master would require you to have 3/4 of the available points for all FMO songs)
+
The sum of 1/4 of the points available in all songs ABOVE the corresponding tiers (ex. FFR Master would require 1/4 of the total points available for FGO and 13 difficulty songs)

So points required for Tier 2 would be:

All combined points of VC and lower songs + 75% of the points of all FMO songs + 25% of the points from all FGO + songs

This way it's a good measure of your skill, average wise, and if you can't do some FMO's, you can make them up for with better FGO scores and AAA bonuses.

To PREVENT MAKING UP FOR POINTS IN A TIER BY MASHING FGO'S, FGO'S WILL HAVE ONLY PA REQS, NO FC REQS. FC points still required, but instead of 2mil points or more for 4 and FC for 5, it would be like for WWE, score equivalent to 100 or fewer clean FC for 5 points, etc. FN would have like, score equivalent to 40 or fewer clean for 5 points, going up to 8 for a AAA. All FGO's will be at least 8 points, max 9 points.

Every time people rank up, as I said, they get a new badge which I think 'should' come with some prize of some sort, either additional credits (which I disagree with) a new song, or maybe just a new customizable forum thing and forum title along with the badge.

This system I think has a good average of your ability in comparison, and allows people to start getting tier points as low as AAA Challenging songs. Reqs would make sense, of course, as in all C songs would be out of 3 points, 1 for an SDG, 2 for 3 or fewer, 3 for a AAA, and so on for each difficulty.

Also, cool badges and forum titles lead to incentives for 'some' people to want to try to get better tier scores, like prestiging in COD and stuff

What do you think?
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Old 12-9-2010, 06:58 PM   #3609
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Default Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

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Originally Posted by stavie33 View Post
The tiers req songs would include ALL songs of difficulty 65 and up. Each song has tier point reqs as usual, from 3/3 (challenging songs) to 9/9 (FGO's).
ok first of all, you have to play ALL req songs to get accurate point ranking.
If we include all C+ songs there wll be like 300+ req songs, anf it gets closer to Average Rank or # of AAAs.

So which is why I suggested a separate TP system (C ~ low FMO songs that aren't in current TP system). I'm not sure how realistic it is yet though.
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Old 12-9-2010, 11:36 PM   #3610
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Default Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

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ok first of all, you have to play ALL req songs to get accurate point ranking.
If we include all C+ songs there wll be like 300+ req songs, anf it gets closer to Average Rank or # of AAAs.

So which is why I suggested a separate TP system (C ~ low FMO songs that aren't in current TP system). I'm not sure how realistic it is yet though.
I realize the large amount of songs as well, but what about the other parts of my idea? Sound any good at all? (I like badges and ****)
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Old 12-10-2010, 02:48 AM   #3611
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Default Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

Similar to that, "Tier X needs X% of sum of X/X reqs" idea would be useful.
and it would be good if TP list can display "Tier X" thing automatically.

It requires major update on current system, though.
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