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Old 04-5-2015, 01:07 PM   #1
Xiz
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Default Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

First off, we would like to apologize to those who we will offend in this post. We understand that we will most likely be burning a bunch of bridges by posting this, and perhaps loose some good friends... but the elephants in the room need to be addressed so FFR can move on as either a company, or as a community project. We hope that this can be taken constructively, so FFR can grow and thrive. We understand that these leaks will most likely result in this thread being deleted, and/or us being banned and we accept all charges against us. But please know, that we are saying this to help FFR because this toxicity needs to be addressed and resolved, and hopefully this will become a self reflection for those inflicting harm on others to realize what they are doing to others.


Recently there have been numerous posts in threads where FFR users have been blatantly insulting the FFR staff, regardless if they are correct or not instead of approaching the issue in a diplomatic manner. These insults range from private PM's, to openly backhanding various staff members ignoring the opportunity to approach the problem with constructive criticism. Examples range such as this:

(To protect the identities and reputations of the individuals, all images have been censored.)







There also have been numerous threads where members of the FFR staff have used petty insults and inappropriate language describing members of the FFR community in public threads, instead of releasing neutral statements. Even in scenarios where neutral statements are posted, other staff members have not been acting to a professional level.
There also have been numerous nonprofessional acts that have taken place behind closed doors, such as through programs like skype, and slack. This has been going on for years now, all the way up to even today.

(The following was in response to the _Zenith_ thread in February)










We strongly recommend that a level of professionalism be held, especially if the intention for FFR is to become successful. These petty insults and high school-esk drama filled rants on both sides need to be eliminated so the company can move on, and for both staff and users could be respected amongst one another. We also strongly recommend that criticism should be taken without hostility and retribution, but instead with care and thoughtful reason. Without the basics of cooperation, there is a minimal chance that FFR will survive.


Once again, we deeply apologize for those who we have insulted and hope the friendships we have gained are not tarnished because of this thread. We hope that this thread brings light to the issues so everyone on FFR can move on. But We do care for FFR, and wish for it's success. We are not asking for an apology, but more awareness to what both sides have been doing to each other, and how it hurts us to see our friends hurt one another. It's for these reasons why we have stopped making files, stopped making videos on this website, and have had little to no interest and motivation to help FFR. The hostility of our friends hurting one another is too overwhelming and exhausting when it could be easily avoided, and we want no part in a website where the foundation of the FFR community resides in these toxic principles.


(It would be ideal if this thread would remain constructive and diplomatic.)


- Xiz & Fission
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Old 04-5-2015, 01:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

if you wanna fight play twg, u can call anyone anything and hopefully they wont be a big bitch
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wow
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Old 04-5-2015, 01:29 PM   #3
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

Heh, j-rodd with the advertisement (btw yes play twg)

I'm gonna take a neutral stance to this because I agree with majority of what has been said.

However...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiz View Post
There also have been numerous nonprofessional acts that have taken place behind closed doors, such as through programs like skype, and slack. This has been going on for years now, all the way up to even today.
This is simply human nature, whether we like it or not. People vent, people joke, people say the nastiest things in a closed door setting because the public can't see their raw opinions at that point in time.

I mean, for instance, no one would know that I hate some files on FFR, OOPS!!! I TOTALLY JUST SAID THIS, SHIT!!!
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Charu the red-nosed Snivy
Had a very shiny nose
And if you ever saw it
You could even say it glows

All of the other Snivies
Used to laugh and call him names
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Join in any Snivy games

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All in all I would say that Charu not only won this game, his play made me reconsider how I play it.
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Old 04-5-2015, 01:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

To be fair, I've had my disagreements with someone yesterday, and he's had disagreements with me as well. I was waiting for a message back, but a thread got deleted instead.

I would prefer these types of conflicts to cease. I don't like fighting myself, but lately, when I try to view it from a staff member's angle, it feels like a burden to deal with users rather than building a community. It's not leading anywhere nice, just a greater divide between players and staff.

@Charu:
It's not about what happens behind closed doors, to state it bluntly it's about projecting that sort of bias that is developed behind closed doors and allowing it to reflect what you do on this website. I've talked with Zenith occasionally and I hear that he is still being judged by his actions when he was part of the FFR Events team, albeit he has apologized. He even made a thread for it but it was heavily criticized because people began judging the way he was apologizing.
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butts.



- Tosh 2014







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Old 04-5-2015, 01:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

good job posting a thread that will only help to alienate the community even more
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Old 04-5-2015, 01:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

like
if this is even remotely a reason why ffr is not getting the attention it needs behind the scenes, then the entirety of the staff needs to be restructured
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Old 04-5-2015, 02:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

It may not remotely be a reason why ffr is not getting the attention it needs behind the scenes, I wouldn't know, only dev & admin team knows that, and they haven't officially said anything concerning what they're doing, except yesterday hinting that they have 2 projects that they were working on, but the thread has been since deleted.

but it could remotely be a reason why people decide to stop browsing the forums, stop using the website, or just not even join in the first place (which is a long shot to say the least). Toxicity in the community can make a big impact in that sense.
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butts.



- Tosh 2014






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Old 04-5-2015, 02:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

oh hey velocity was viewing the thread and now he's not
someone got called the fuck out
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Old 04-5-2015, 02:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

I think even the League of Legends community, a known cesspool of toxicity and entitlement, is more appreciative of the Riot devs than anything I see on FFR.
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Old 04-5-2015, 02:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

nice double postings
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Old 04-5-2015, 02:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

Quote:
Originally Posted by gold stinger View Post
It may not remotely be a reason why ffr is not getting the attention it needs behind the scenes, I wouldn't know, only dev & admin team knows that, and they haven't officially said anything concerning what they're doing, except yesterday hinting that they have 2 projects that they were working on, but the thread has been since deleted.

but it could remotely be a reason why people decide to stop browsing the forums, stop using the website, or just not even join in the first place (which is a long shot to say the least). Toxicity in the community can make a big impact in that sense.
That project thing where the community has to give random codenames for it so it can be cryptic as who knows what and the admin who gave that idea is just beating around the bush would just drive the community really far way.
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Old 04-5-2015, 02:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

Oh no I said something better accuse the staff of circlejerking instead of at least being moderately appreciative of one of the biggest engine updates in the site's history that happenened earlier this week.
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Old 04-5-2015, 02:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

so the biggest update in the FFR's site history was an april fools joke, attached with raw scoring?

edit:
forgive me I didn't mean to stray this thread, just frustration from yesterday getting the better of me, and site lag.

double-edit:
actually, my post & hi19hi19's post is a very common example of what's trying to be explained and what needs to stop happening.
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- Tosh 2014







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Old 04-5-2015, 02:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

I just find it amusing that it's the same group of users who begin every series of complaint posts, yet it's the staff's fault for responding, yet it's also the staff's fault if they don't repond because then there is no transparency.

But you know even though its always us starting the shit (this very thread, for example), lets work TOGETHER to stop it.
Gets really old.
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Old 04-5-2015, 02:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

Remember the Golden Rule, folks.

I mean really, just be nice

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Old 04-5-2015, 02:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi19hi19 View Post
I just find it amusing that it's the same group of users who begin every series of complaint posts
nailed it lol. there will always be ppl who love to speak out against devs etc that's how the internet works.

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Old 04-5-2015, 02:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

I'll elaborate, because out of context my posts in this thread so far could possibly just be construed as brainless trolling and I want to make it extremely clear where I am coming from.

Let's look at the _Zenith_ thread addressed by the OP:
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=140975

In this thread, the OP starts with a strongly worded attack on the staff.
There is no pretense of dialogue, no attempt to be diplomatic, nothing. It literally starts with the statement, "Staff is a joke for several reasons".

How the fuck is the staff supposed to respond to that?

And this is how most interactions between *certain users* and the staff go: blatant antagonizing with no intention at all of respectful dialogue.

Now as a staff member, we have two options: not respond (which is what the staff had been doing for years) and be accused of not having any transparency, not respecting the opinions of the userbase, being stagnant, etc.
Or, the staff can respond. But what happens when you respond to a troll? You inevitably get dragged down to their level by arguing. I happen to find it really funny when this happens, so I respond, and continue responding so long as the tone remains reasonably diplomatic. Most of the other staff members are actually too polite, or care too much about forum etiquette, to join me in doing this- I respect them for that, as everyone else should.

From here, it usually becomes apparent that the people complaining have a massive chip on their shoulder against the staff in general. No constructive dialogue happens, and the thread gets rightfully locked.


Obviously, shit talk is going to go down privately, because as Charu said, that's just human nature.
But the bigger problem is just the complete lack of faith and respect for the staff, and honestly, that's coming entirely from the users.

Ask AJ why he quit: hint, it's because the ratio of respect for the massive amount of work he put into the site versus the amount of unwarranted shit he got from unappreciative, entitled assholes just made it all not worth doing. After being staff for a while, I see where he's coming from.

If you guys want to talk, start by being polite. The staff will just continue doing our best work whether or not a bunch of idiots are spewing vitriol in the forums or not.
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Old 04-5-2015, 02:56 PM   #18
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

I posted these in the FFR Friends chat but I might as well make it more public instead.

[3:21:28 PM] Samantha Dell: Most often I see users get out of hand with each other, usually because of someone shitposting intentionally or not. Other than that, trolling or saying something offensive to someone and causing trouble. Then staff will either eventually be required to intervene, or get pulled in by someone saying something about them.

[3:21:43 PM] Samantha Dell: or another possibility is staff trying to do something or ask the community for something and getting destroyed. Example, the codename thing. Every company does that. For Microsoft, they had "operation longhorn" for Vista, very very few knew what it was, and even some workers that were doing small tasks for it had no idea, and although I agree with choof I'd rather have information on "we are working on this, here's progress" I don't see reason why staff should've been shit on by community members being disrespectful.

[3:22:45 PM] Samantha Dell: If people stop being dicks, trolls, shitposting, and being memeing assholes, staff will not be required to bother them. Then if staff does have to do something, or something is unsatisfactory, staff does not have to be ripped to shreds for every little thing. They are not working for FFR. They are real people with real lives and have other things to do. This is a freaking hobby.

[3:23:01 PM] Samantha Dell: Everyone should learn to be thankful for the shit they put up with and everything they do accomplish. /end rant

[3:45:05 PM] Samantha Dell: Although I do say both are to blame, that's often to be expected of someone in a position to cast judgement. Everyone in a school hates the disciplinarian, but it's their job. If someone in a leadership position is being attacked, the choices are
a. fight back (least effective, causes problems in the long run, has happened with FFR staff definitely)
b. lock thread (happens like 324590 times a second)
c. delete thread (had to happen because of a shitposting storm)
d. take it and do nothing
None are necessarily good options, but they are (in essence) some of the only ones. So yes, staff are to blame for the disconnect as well but significantly (and I mean significantly) less than the userbase, especially the ones hi19 and Darkbear talking about that are almost the same ones flaming/complaining about things. I would enjoy seeing staff actually starting shit with users or causing the actual drama (not actually enjoy it, but I mean I haven't seen it personally and am interested in knowing if it happens or how often it does).

[3:46:11 PM | Edited 3:46:14 PM] Samantha Dell: Even with the purpose of the thread showing that both are to blame, in my opinion, it does still make the userbase look worse because most of the discussions and examples are in response to something the users did.

Last edited by dell2150; 04-5-2015 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 04-5-2015, 02:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

how hard is it to not be an asshole on the internet
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Old 04-5-2015, 02:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

Further elaborating on the post above.

The staff would, in all honesty, be content to not say anything and just do our work. Staff members do not going around and publicly put down other users without provocation, because we have better shit to be doing. (Me responding to this thread is a result of having been clearly provoked. Seriously.)

Thus any negative staff-user interaction is started by a user.
And so it's even more of a slap in the face to construe the fact the staff is bothering to try to respond at all as it suddenly being the staff's fault.
The staff could not respond to anything- it happened that way for half a decade, really, and people complained about that too.

This is not something we "need to work on together", this is just a small and obnoxiously vocal part of the userbase needing to learn how to be polite. End of story.
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