KONY 2012

[Aldentron]

folks, activism and money don't belong together. you don't need to donate ANY money to raise awareness, and if you do, there's probably a lobbyist or some one on the top of the ladder getting that money.

[-Fallen-]

Thank you for this, I copy pasted it all over Facebook.

Originally Posted by phe0nixblade

You people need to do your research before you all jump on something just because you think it's doing the right thing.

http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/po...we-got-trouble
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl...-lra?page=show
http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comme...joseph/c3ycvhb

"Last year, the organization spent $8,676,614. Only 32% went to direct services."

"Both the Ugandan army and Sudan People’s Liberation Army are riddled with accusations of rape and looting, but Invisible Children defends them, arguing that the Ugandan army is “better equipped than that of any of the other affected countries”, although Kony is no longer active in Uganda and hasn’t been since 2006 by their own admission. "

"Of the $8.9 million you spent in 2011:
$1.7 million in US employee salaries
$357,000 in Film costs
$850,000 in Production costs
$244,000 in "professional services" (DC lobbyists)
$1.07 million in travel expenses
$400,000 in office rent in San Diego
$16,000 in Entertainment"

Originally Posted by Aldentron

folks, activism and money don't belong together. you don't need to donate ANY money to raise awareness, and if you do, there's probably a lobbyist or some one on the top of the ladder getting that money.

^ This. Money isn't necessary to raise awareness especially with how everything on the internet spreads like a virus. If the money were going to funding a mercenary group to hunt and track the guy down, then I'd be up for contributing.


edit: A point was brought up to me that the guy who originally began this "movement" nearly 10 years ago didn't have the means to raise awareness because the internet and such has evolved so much in the last decade, that's fair. My question is now that technology has evolved, why are people still being scammed into donating to his movement? Buy a shirt, every dollar helps? How does that make us closer to catching him when none of the money is actually being contributed to his capture? This guy has been making millions every year for the last decade "raising awareness" and from what I read, "we" are no closer to capturing him.

[flipsta_lombax]

Originally Posted by Gravity Kitten

i think the only most of you are contributing to this, is because you're too lazy to get off your ass and do something for this world, so you just purchase this "action kit" as an excuse.

cool vid tho lol

yooo homeboy, you sound like you've done just as much for the world. Share it here and so people can advocate what you do

@links, numbers posted etc etc: I read the links. I expected at least one of them to tell me IC is a fluke, a fake propaganda, fallacy, NOT legit. All I read was skepticism and numbers accused of telling another story.

32% may sound small, but $2.8 mill is $2.8 mill, and it was the main chunk of their spending. No one paid them to reach lobbyists, no one paid them to grab a plane ticket to Uganda to show their support. They didn't want a half-ass movie to catch the eyes of the world.

I read in that tumble link saying "Something isn't always better than nothing. Sometimes it's worse." What a load of bullshit. Let me know when advocating something we believe is right is worse. Like being too lazy sitting on our ass, waiting for the Taco Bell/Doritos chip to come out. Fat asses.

I hope you guys don't catch E.Coli from those Taco Bell Dorito chips. Then again...

[phe0nixblade]

Originally Posted by flipsta_lombax

Like being too lazy sitting on our ass, waiting for the Taco Bell/Doritos chip to come out. Fat asses.

I hope you guys don't catch E.Coli from those Taco Bell Dorito chips. Then again...

I don't like taco's.
checkmate

[Aldentron]

what exactly is inside the "action kit?"

[SKG_Scintill]

inb4konyisahoax

[phe0nixblade]

Originally Posted by Aldentron

what exactly is inside the "action kit?"

a bracelet, stickers, posters, etc for you to put up for people see "kony 2012" everywhere

[Mau5]

Welcome to Hypocrite Hypocrite Revolution

[flipsta_lombax]

Originally Posted by phe0nixblade

I don't like taco's.
checkmate

touche

[midnghtraver]

My best friend went to Kenya last summer and his family got a kid from Uganda for a month before he left, and this stuff is still going on. Just because kony is more out of the picture doesn't mean that he doest have a ton of people on his side.

[Cavernio]

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl...-lra?page=show
-This link quite simply says that there is a dire need for MORE intervention and resources in this part of Africa
-Death tolls in this region of Africa due to conflict are staggering (in the millions)
-Religious leaders in the region apparently oppose US forces.
This article really doesn't address Kony 2012.

http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comme...joseph/c3ycvhb

-Is not counter Kony2012 in the least, as it seems to be info directly from invisiblechildren
-The first comment re the financial spending on the organization doesn't seem to understand its own link, especially seen by the fact that they assume 'Goods and Services' is money for their program, which is also unfortunately who phoenix posted about.
If you actually go into the report mario is talking about, you see that there are 2 columns, one for program and one for general and management. Just for example, that 1.7 in transportation would include any transportation of goods and people involved in the program. If they shipped over food (I have no idea if they shipped over food or not), that would likely be under the Program column, in the Transportation row.

And secondly, the report Mario links is from June 2011. The report linked in the article, although undated, talks about events of nov 2011 in the past, so we can assume it is in regards to likely a Jan. 01-Dec. 31 fiscal year...not even the same time frame.

http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/po...we-got-trouble
Again uses the info that phoenix posted, which is, once again, simply some idiot not understanding how to read a table.
-Opinion based and fearful that getting rid of one problem is somehow bad because there are multiple problems in the region. They also use quotes from profs like this "There’s also something inherently misleading, naive, maybe even dangerous, about the idea of rescuing children..." This guy clearly knows what he's talking about.
-are worried that the Ugandan army isn't ethical

http://justiceinconflict.org/2012/03...-down-a-notch/
Ugh, this is my least favorite article. The fact that locals support amnesty programs with the LRA doesn't mean they want the LRA to exist. The fact that local, legal authorities are corrupt is, again, pretty much separate from the LRA. Bitching that Kony 2012 isn't 'good enough' is hardly a good reason to not support it.

Overall, I find all these articles which don't like the idea of Kony 2012, highly worried about the stability of that region of Africa. They're all very concerned that we won't be able to solve all the political issues in a large region. However, all of them say Kony is evil and the LRA is bad, even if they don't like the idea of Kony 2012.

They're all like...well, you can't solve anything unless you make stability, but you can't **** it up, but we have to do something about it anyways, but doing something about it is sticking your nose into someone else's business, but we don't have a solution to that so you shouldn't stop the clear evil that exists in the region, but we shouldn't leave the region alone because it's clearly wrong. too...

You know what I like about kony 2012? It is simple. It clearly aligns with everyone's morals (except kony's), and is all for moving in, taking him out/down, and that's it. It is not mired in all the BS that people against it are bringing into it, it really isn't. No one is stealing resources from another good project to solve the shit in the region, because that project doesn't exist. A group of people started a movement and because it's not THE solution to life, the universe and everything, people are against it.

The LRA is not holding some precious balance in the region together so that dismantling it will result in the region falling into further bloodshed.

[Cavernio]

GG posting pheonix's link. What he copied is wrong.

[phe0nixblade]

i dont even really feel like reading anything you posted cause i really didnt wanna get into a big ol' debate about this thing so i'll just say sure and move on and keep browsing and posting about 4/20 and dorito taco's

[Cavernio]

I wonder what people would say against a 'Stop the Holocaust' movement if ww2 were to happen in present times.

[phe0nixblade]

as long as the holocaust movement doesnt stop the dorito taco's i'm pretty sure it'd work out

[t-rogdor]

Originally Posted by flipsta_lombax

@links, numbers posted etc etc: I read the links. I expected at least one of them to tell me IC is a fluke, a fake propaganda, fallacy, NOT legit. All I read was skepticism and numbers accused of telling another story.

Those numbers suggest that they don't use the money for what purposes are stated. They also point out how the armies IC is literally funding rape and steal from people. So yeah. They're "a fallacy".

Originally Posted by flipsta_lombax

32% may sound small, but $2.8 mill is $2.8 mill, and it was the main chunk of their spending. No one paid them to reach lobbyists, no one paid them to grab a plane ticket to Uganda to show their support. They didn't want a half-ass movie to catch the eyes of the world.

32% of their total profits. 2.8 million dollars might be 2.8 million dollars, but it's nothing compared to the ~8 million that COULD have gone to actually doing something. While I appreciate the funds to make a movie and raise awareness, again I must stress that 1) They could've made a much lower budget film, 2) this movie won't accomplish jack shit, and 3) THEY SPENT 16 THOUSAND DOLLARS ON "ENTERTAINMENT". COMPANY MONEY ON THEIR OWN JOY.

Originally Posted by flipsta_lombax

I read in that tumble link saying "Something isn't always better than nothing. Sometimes it's worse." What a load of bullshit. Let me know when advocating something we believe is right is worse. Like being too lazy sitting on our ass, waiting for the Taco Bell/Doritos chip to come out. Fat asses.

lol you took the taco bell thing seriously.
something isn't better than nothing if that something goes to funding the wrong purposes. Advocating isn't bad; activism is great. BUT not when it's at the hands and purposes of a greedy bullshit company masquerading as a charity.

Originally Posted by flipsta_lombax

I hope you guys don't catch E.Coli from those Taco Bell Dorito chips. Then again...

wishing harm on your fellow man. A+ Activism talk!

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Choof and trog don't bring up any good points; they bring up points of laziness and distrust and worry that the group's incompetent. Essentially their point is 'why bother?'

no, my (our) point is 'why bother wasting your money when it's going into the hands of a company that is lying to you' and also 'this man is way more powerful than what Bullshit Pseudo-Activism can accomplish'.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

How many people who are against this have actually watched the video in full? Because the video clearly shows (perhaps erroneously, although I don't know how/why that would be the case, but there are clearly a bunch of skeptics) that when people actually worked together en masse towards getting the US government to do something, they did something.

...exceeeeept the US government has been trying to find this guy already, as it is. there's no need to get them to do something because they already fucen are. Also

Originally Posted by Cavernio

when people actually worked together en masse towards getting the US government to do something, they did something.

right because pressuring the government into not passing sopa only to have them turn around and start ACTA or whatever the hell it is was a total success.
total.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

It's no longer 'we hope world leaders will do something', it's 'we need more time to get this done, and we need to keep the pressure on the world leaders'.

how about 'we need to get off our stupid asses and do something ourselves instead of paying some company $30 so they can make a movie and then we sit back and hope the world leaders notice'. What speaks louder to you? Getting people to see a movie (effectively giving IC an assload of cash), or rioting in the streets until something is done?

Originally Posted by Cavernio

The message is loud and clear. Much like how SOPA and bill C32 have been put on hold due to public outcry, your opinion, and letting your opinion be known, matters.

Right! Your opinion matters until someone offers someone else money to ignore it. Welcome to politics, asshole.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Furthermore, again as the video states, world governments have done nothing because they've had no immediate reason to.

lmfao

Originally Posted by Cavernio

If your job is to run YOUR country as best as you can, as we see, it often becomes we vs they, and whatever shit that goes on in uganda is of no consequence, especially in light of all the shit that is likely going on in your country that you need to address. But if the people in your country are appalled and want to actually do something, who are you, as that country's leader, to say no?

i'm pretty sure that not only are you factually incorrect but completely unaware of how being in an office of power even works. It's pretty much NEVER "we vs they". International relations and, by proxy, problems that occur outside the country, are a large part of being a leader.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

It is unfortunate they don't explain where the money's going, choofers, but it's not like this is something like the Heart and Stroke foundation that works on an on-going basis, has been around for years, and knows how much money they'll probably get, so it's fairly easy to give break-downs of where the money's going.

any company that doesn't plan on being a long-term operation can stay right the **** away from my or anyone with half a brain's money

Originally Posted by Cavernio

If you're a one-time organization that wants to get stuff done for 1 particular cause, especially one where you hope you can raise a TON of money, then you'll do what you can with the money that you make, and specifically planning what to do with it and letting people know, will surely backfire if you don't actually keep to those guidelines you showed the donators.

so what you're saying is that they should keep the money they make and what they do with it private so they don't disappoint donators.
that is the worst decision any business could make. it's almost lying.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Obviously part of the money is going towards what goes inside the kits and paying people who have created the movement in the first place. The rest of the money we're assuming is going to go to military operations and then setting up safe havens for children, medical treatment, etc. I have no reason to believe that money I would spend on a kit would go anywhere else but towards helping out the situation in Uganda. The question, choofers, is not why you should trust invisiblechildren, but why you shouldn't. Is there a past history of this organization pocketing money? Are they being overly secretive with what their plans are?

PROTIP: THEY SPENT $16,000 ON THEIR OWN ENTERTAINMENT. $16,000.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Another question: if your 30$ or whatever it is (I haven't bought anything yet but I will) DOES just go to line the pockets of the creators of invisiblechildren, what are you out? Only 30$.

and what are they in? only 8 million? pfff, no big deal. just 8mill.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

And if for some odd reason, this charity group is *gasp*, doing what it's say they're going to do, you've just helped an entire country.The cost/benefit ratio is just so wide, I don't see how you can condone the Kony 2012 movement if you care about the situation at all.

maybe because i want to do something that actually gets shit done instead of saying MOM CAN I SEE YOUR DEBIT CARD I WANNA SPEND $30 ON THIS BOX AND THEN SAY I HELPED. I HELPED. I'M HELPING MOM.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Another thing, this situation is not 'just another terrorist' because it is kids that are in this army.

KIDS MAKE THE SITUATION 100X MORE DIRE. LIFE HOLDS MORE VALUE IF YOU ARE BELOW THE AGE OF 10. YEP. I appreciate that it's horrible what he's doing, but life holds equal meaning regardless of age.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Secondly, because this army is full of kids who don't choose to be in it, you are far less likely to have it get remade, or for the kids to regroup, once the leader(s) of it are captured. If you're concerned that simply capturing Kony won't do anything, the #2 person on the list was also Ugandan, probably a second in command. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't go after all the leaders of this atrocious army at once.

has it ever occurred to you that disbanding the army isn't the goal so much as it is making sure the dude who had this idea in the first place is taken away.
has it also occurred to you that, where Kony to be found and his home(s) raided, these warrior-children would be killed on sight by the forces? no matter what happens, these kids are d-e-a-d.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

But regardless that, you know, al-qaeda is actually wrong and should be stamped out, that is a separate issue from this terrorist situation. To think that just because you can't fix anything with the world, that you shouldn't try and fix 1 thing, is pretty defeatist. Why don't you just kill yourself now, you're going to die sometime anyways.

shut up.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Oh, and if you think that should be doing something else to stop Kony, why don't you go out and do it? Oh, is that because you would need not only yourself but a well-funded, lawful, focussed organization to get the job done? Isn't that exactly what this movement is creating??

that's not what it's creating. it's creating a job for a bunch of people who saw an opportunity to capitalize on the eagerness of society to latch onto a cause to abolish their white guilt or whatever. there are plenty of things the everyday person can do to help with this that don't involve giving some asshat $30 because they had a good idea to make a quick buck.

Y'ALL NIGAHS DUMB

[Spenner]

A lot of Nazis would show their faces.

[t-rogdor]

2a

[t-rogdor]

Originally Posted by phe0nixblade

as long as the holocaust movement doesnt stop the dorito taco's i'm pretty sure it'd work out

Doritos Taco 2012 - It Can't Be Stopped. For just $20 I'll send you a box full of taco activism tools (a cool bracelet, a shirt with cannibal corpse album art and "FREE TACOS" on it in 57pt Curlz MT font, and a pair of jorts) so you can make sure everyone knows about tacos. Free the tacos. Save the tacos. Be the taco.

[Syhto]

why dont they just send someone in to assassinate the dude, the corruption is so bad through most of africa anyway and everyone turns a blind eye. money isn't really the issue here as far as I can tell. movements do help peoples awareness but i don't think the donation is necessary as much as a total revolution is.