ATTN: FFRevolution

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

why do other staff members get special treatment for being inactive.

Because they are likely more active than you realize and you're just spouting shit about special treatment when they are in fact doing what they are supposed to?

Is the problem that you think the FFR staff can't recognize its own issues, or something?

[gold stinger]

awaiting Fission post patiently

[Fission]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Yeah money is an issue. Being non-profit is an issue. But these would be mitigated if the community expectations were in line with what is actually happening.

Being non-profit has nothing to do with it. I haven't done it publicly, but I have explained that opening up FFR to contributors is what needs to happen. Look at any huge open source project on Github for example. They can add functionality rapidly because of their open nature.

Whether making parts of FFR the game and the website open source will actually solve the issue is something I don't think anybody can predict.

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

I'll talk about the dev team and the simfile review process because that's what I know best. There's tons of shit going on behind the scenes. I'm sure you guys know the dev team have big goals- redesigning the homepage, new engine, raw scoring, the list goes on. I'm sure you guys also know that AJ quit being a game manager and left a leadership vacuum that Silvuh is doing his best to fill.

Here's the problem: new functionality isn't delivered quickly enough. You can have plans all you want but if you can't deliver them then it doesn't mean anything. The reason being is because FFR needs to be focusing on cleaning up the infrastructure. A lot of the website is still written in spaghetti legacy PHP and needs to be significantly cleaned up. By doing this, new functionality can actually be delivered in a timely manner.

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

These changes go by slowly because, without throwing money at it, all the staff have other jobs and obligations that take priority over FFR. And so large periods of time go by where it feels like nothing is going on to the average user, but things are in fact actually happening. This is an area that can be improved- I talk a lot about increasing transparency, and I think it's the simplest first step to take and could even be fun for the staff if done well.

The suggestion of changing staff or adding more staff is more complicated than it appears. Throwing more people at the kinds of issues that need to be solved with dedication and care doesn't nessecarily deliver a better product. And replacing "lazy" staff has its own pitfalls. AJ is a great example of what happens when a staff member leaves (note that he certainly wasn't lazy). A gap in the structure like that takes time to fill properly. Cycling new staff constantly is just as disruptive as having lazy staff. With this in mind it's obvious that striking a balance between finding staff with the free time to no-life work on the site out of pure passion versus replacing people too quickly is difficult. It's an issue with the site since its start (Tass aside, he was his own issue) and it's not going to go away so long as we aren't throwing money at it.

These two paragraphs conflict each other. You claim that throwing people at the problem isn't going to fix it, but you also mention that staff has other obligations outside of FFR. This is a pretty obvious indication that FFR is understaffed.

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Is the problem that you think the FFR staff can't recognize its own issues, or something?

In a way yes, but it's not a problem really. Once staff gets heat on them, posts will start disappearing, and I really haven't seen anyone own up to their own issues.

If staff didn't want this thread to go this far, then why wasn't it locked?

[TC_Halogen]

a warning to everyone in this thread, if you're not going to stay on topic in this serious discussion, your posts will be removed, you will be infracted, and if it keeps up, I will ban you.

grow up. Stop with the spammy images and irrelevant posting.

[Mahou]

Oh snap. Middie with credible posts.

[gold stinger]

I think locking the thread after letting it go this far down the rabbit hole would be some pretty bad damage control compared to trying to tackle issues & concerns that have been addressed in here imo.

[xVaLoRx]

if we all played valoriginals instead of ffr none of this would be an issue

[Lambdadelta]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

a warning to everyone in this thread, if you're not going to stay on topic in this serious discussion, your posts will be removed, you will be infracted, and if it keeps up, I will ban you.

grow up. Stop with the spammy images and irrelevant posting.

I can't believe you're NOT butter.

[hi19hi19]

I agree that cleaning up infrastructure should be a priority. I don't think suddenly dumping several new people on that task will help complete it any better.

Originally Posted by Fission

You claim that throwing people at the problem isn't going to fix it, but you also mention that staff has other obligations outside of FFR. This is a pretty obvious indication that FFR is understaffed.

My point is, whatever new staff members are added are also inevitably going to have obligations outside of FFR.

You may have ample free time to work on FFR now, but suddenly you get a different job. Have to move. Get a girlfriend. Start taking classes. Get sick.
You still contribute when you can but suddenly now you're the "lazy staff" and so you're worthless and should just be thrown out for someone else, right?
That's a revolving door where people are kicked just as soon as their contribution starts to bear fruit.

[PhantomPuppy]

wait wait wait, im very confused what the issue is here. is it that there isnt enough staff to get work done that is expected by some in the community, or is it that ppl are complaining that the staff themselves are the issue??

either way, this thread is getting a bit too targeted for my liking towards specific ppl, so please all calm down. :/

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

You still contribute when you can but suddenly now you're the "lazy staff" and so you're worthless and should just be thrown out for someone else, right?

Recycling staff wouldn't be a bad idea because you wouldn't have people getting into niches and cliques to where other people don't have a good time.

[RB_Spirit]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

a warning to everyone in this thread, if you're not going to stay on topic in this serious discussion, your posts will be removed, you will be infracted, and if it keeps up, I will ban you.

grow up. Stop with the spammy images and irrelevant posting.

I can't believe you're NOT butter.

[TC_Halogen]

Deliberately testing staff is really not helping the cause here, and I really highly suggest that you guys stop.

[xAlphaWolf]

[gold stinger]

holy shit is that Kagome?

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Recycling staff wouldn't be a bad idea because you wouldn't have people getting into niches and cliques to where other people don't have a good time.

Suddenly this thread is about whether you are able to have a good time interacting with the staff.

I... have nothing to add, then.
Good luck accomplishing whatever you want this thread to accomplish.

[Charu]

Originally Posted by Fission

Being non-profit has nothing to do with it. I haven't done it publicly, but I have explained that opening up FFR to contributors is what needs to happen. Look at any huge open source project on Github for example. They can add functionality rapidly because of their open nature.

Whether making parts of FFR the game and the website open source will actually solve the issue is something I don't think anybody can predict.

Being open sourced sounds like a good way to have the general public "in the know" a lot more. I definitely support this idea heavily.

[Fission]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

I agree that cleaning up infrastructure should be a priority. I don't think suddenly dumping several new people on that task will help complete it any better.

This is what code reviews are for. Full control of development still belongs to the head developers -- they don't have to include subpar code if they don't want to. It's simply fact that the development team is getting pulled in too many directions right now and it's too difficult to cover a significant amount of ground without easing the onboarding process for more developers.

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

My point is, whatever new staff members are added are also inevitably going to have obligations outside of FFR.

You may have ample free time to work on FFR now, but suddenly you get a different job. Have to move. Get a girlfriend. Start taking classes. Get sick.
You still contribute when you can but suddenly now you're the "lazy staff" and so you're worthless and should just be thrown out for someone else, right?

I'm not suggesting to get rid of them, don't get the wrong idea. I'm stating that because people can't commit full time to FFR's development that it needs to have more developers than an organization that can afford them full time.

[tosh]

Originally Posted by PhantomPuppy

wait wait wait, im very confused what the issue is here. is it that there isnt enough staff to get work done that is expected by some in the community, or is it that ppl are complaining that the staff themselves are the issue??

A little bit of both, tbh. Understaffed in the aspect that this is a volunteer position and the staff have stuff outside of FFR to worry about so they aren't able to devote all of their resources to dealing with some issues/implementing promised features.

Staff themselves in the sense that some people say that the current staff sometimes tries to bite off more than they can chew and that arguably some people may be able to fit that particular role better.

Originally Posted by Lambdadelta

I can't believe you're NOT butter.

You need to come up with butter jokes than that.